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Doncaster Sheffield-3

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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 16th Jul 2022, 08:41
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Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
Where do we think the cargo flights will move to with their perishable goods inbound only.
Interesting question. Does EMA have the capacity to take the business, and do they have the capability to handle perishable?

If not, perhaps STN?
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 09:26
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Originally Posted by ATNotts View Post
Interesting question. Does EMA have the capacity to take the business, and do they have the capability to handle perishable?

If not, perhaps STN?
There is a very large MAG airport that would benefit from a bankruptcy sale on a lightly used HIghLow 😉
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 10:31
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Who is saying they are bankrupt? I am thinking no one.
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 12:49
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes View Post
Who is saying they are bankrupt? I am thinking no one.
The aviation sector of Peel group produces massive year on year losses . If the owner states they can not continue to fund the bills then Finningley is effectively bankrupt.( Evenmore so if the cash reserves are depleted)

As said previously Peel couldn’t give a fig about their aviation assets beyond land values !

And that includes Liverpool , an airport they tried to ditch on a Canadian pension/venture company a few years back only have it return!
That company couldn’t see a return ever and that is the main airport in the group and where the local own council just declined to invest at least £700k in an eco energy project !

I can almost guarantee if Peel could find (con) the right investors ( obviously not another pension fund !) they would be out of aviation in a heart beat .

Finningley was a solution looking for a problem. Regrettably it hasn’t found it . Might have differed if they’d have chased down Jet2 !

Whats more other than 2excel ( Sabre as was) it hasn’t even won any significant ancillary business , Two flower flights from Nairobi ain’t gonna change that now.

Now the site logistically should have made a excellent and competitive freight alternative to MAG at EMA and STN especially if they’d have secured one of the consolidators or Amazon, after all compare Liege/Maastricht/Luxembourg Amsterdam/ Cologne and Paris where each has secured one or more in very competitive market.

A tenth or so the size in the UK through one would have thought Peel would have chased and secured at least one by now.

That said they haven’t had a great record on freight even at Liverpool, a facility that boasted a massive mail hub for twenty years before they lost it

At the end of 2021. DSA had just £56k in the bank and accrued annual debt due of some £28m, salary recorded as something around £3.5M and tax outstanding of £350,000 and loans outstanding of £9m whilst in receipt of £1,2 million of tax payers monies via various grants

Peel value the land and facilities via share ownership at £207 million.

Now tell me it’s not for the land value ?

Just going back Amazon and a massive warehouse and hub could yet be a savour - At the right price if a Peel really do care .

Peel should stick with boats, shopping malls and warehouses imho.
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 13:20
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Peel are not bankrupt or in administration, which would come first.
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 14:22
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes View Post
Peel are not bankrupt or in administration, which would come first.

We arenít talking about Peel the parent company worth Billions.

We are talking about Doncaster Airport a subsidiary limited company with Company Registration, Tax and Duns number reporting itís own financials and as such absolutely could be declared bankrupt through trading illegally whilst being insolvent, or by defaulting on terms of covenants on loans, debt or tax quite independently of the parent company, indeed the parent could put the company into administration themselves as a creditor if they saw advantages to do so.

Right now the Duns ratings are so poor the canít get credit at affordable rates in the open market and according to https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news...-books-3770708

They potentially canít even provide adequate guarantees to secure up to £20m of emergency public money right now!

Again they are in a dire state and are effectively days from genuine bankruptcy as a business.

They desperately need a very wealthy benefactor in the next few days


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Old 16th Jul 2022, 14:42
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Same could be said about Luton, as it has debts of over £500m and lost over £100m last year but is supported and bailed out by the council. The parent company of Doncaster will not let the airport go bankrupt, as the land is worth more than the debts so remains a valuable asset. Yes they can shut it down but that is not the same thing. It will then be put under care and maintenance for other uses. With no staff apart from a man and a dog costs will drop off a cliff.
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 15:29
  #328 (permalink)  
 
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https://inews.co.uk/news/doncaster-sheffield-airport-property-group-which-may-shut-airport-got-2-5m-from-taxpayer-during-pandemic-1741171


Good read.


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Old 16th Jul 2022, 15:38
  #329 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Rutan16 View Post
The aviation sector of Peel group produces massive year on year losses . If the owner states they can not continue to fund the bills then Finningley is effectively bankrupt.( Evenmore so if the cash reserves are depleted)

As said previously Peel couldnít give a fig about their aviation assets beyond land values !

And that includes Liverpool , an airport they tried to ditch on a Canadian pension/venture company a few years back only have it return!
That company couldnít see a return ever and that is the main airport in the group and where the local own council just declined to invest at least £700k in an eco energy project !

I can almost guarantee if Peel could find (con) the right investors ( obviously not another pension fund !) they would be out of aviation in a heart beat .

Finningley was a solution looking for a problem. Regrettably it hasnít found it . Might have differed if theyíd have chased down Jet2 !

Whats more other than 2excel ( Sabre as was) it hasnít even won any significant ancillary business , Two flower flights from Nairobi ainít gonna change that now.

Now the site logistically should have made a excellent and competitive freight alternative to MAG at EMA and STN especially if theyíd have secured one of the consolidators or Amazon, after all compare Liege/Maastricht/Luxembourg Amsterdam/ Cologne and Paris where each has secured one or more in very competitive market.

A tenth or so the size in the UK through one would have thought Peel would have chased and secured at least one by now.

That said they havenít had a great record on freight even at a Liverpool, a facility that boasted a massive mail hub for twenty years before they lost it

At the end of 2021. DSA had just £56k in the bank and accrued annual debt due of some £28m, salary recorded as something around £3.5M and tax outstanding of £350,000 and loans outstanding of £9m whilst in receipt of £1,2 million of tax payers monies via various grants

Peel value the land and facilities via share ownership at £207 million.

Now tell me itís not for the land value ?

Just going back Amazon and a massive warehouse and hub could yet be a savour - At the right price if a Peel really do care .

Peel should stick with boats, shopping malls and warehouses imho.
But there is already a massive Amazon depot five miles away. Why would Amazon want another depot ?
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 15:58
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Amazon has three massive depots around Teesside but no flights to the airport.
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 16:41
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Yet Luton is council owned and has a bright future once COVID19 and Brexit issues subside . Not in the same league whatsoever.

Again we arenít talking about the land indeed the land has the value itís the business and company that is Doncaster Airport , indeed the airport biggest creditor is a certain Peel Group and the ďleasesĒ and associated covenant on that land will be fully protected by Peel.

Again final time Doncaster Airport will go bust and bankruptcy will be inevitable for that business in a matter of days as things stand.

Why are you arguing over a technicality such voluntary administration or forced liquidation under English corporate law, the effects are almost always the same anyway.

We have nothing like Chapter 11 or even other European administrations systems that can allow continued trading during administration under certain caveats, its simply illegal to trade when insolvent period.

Doncaster Airport is already insolvent and the review prior administration is a technical stalling process right now,.
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 19:05
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RutanÖare you Timmy in disguise??
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 19:26
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ View Post
RutanÖare you Timmy in disguise??
Only Timmy that springs to mind is Timmy Mallet and thatís scary 😟
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 19:44
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Originally Posted by Rutan16 View Post
Only Timmy that springs to mind is Timmy Mallet and thatís scary 😟
There a persistent pessimist on the DSA threads that your tone seems to reflect. Maybe you ought to meet up youíd have a great time 😂
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 22:11
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Movements 2021…SND 34,000, DSA 14,000. Pax numbers are very different but SND has existed for years as a pretty busy GA airfield, customs clearance etc.
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Old 16th Jul 2022, 22:30
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Rutan, lest you think Peel is only tardy in the aviation sector, I suggest you also look up their progress on Port Salford and Liverpool Waters. They aren’t known for their speed of development. Oh and they charge DSA 2.77% per annum for their loan, probably much steadier income than they would receive on the open market. Unless they wished to go down the pre pack insolvency route, Peel have no reason to put DSA into bankruptcy given that they are the main creditor, bless they wish to wipe out the £9m local loan.
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 07:50
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Originally Posted by GAPSTER View Post
Movements 2021ÖSND 34,000, DSA 14,000. Pax numbers are very different but SND has existed for years as a pretty busy GA airfield, customs clearance etc.
But that was before they incurred the debt of the new terminal etc - different times.
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 10:18
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My only thoughts on this is losses during Covid for an airport are perhaps unavoidable.

Would Peel be capable of some crafty accounting and inter company charging also?

id like to see someone else have a stab at running the airport element. It would make a great Northern base for Tui, if they focused on it, ran it, and shifted lots of flights from hell hole Manchester
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 10:23
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Originally Posted by davidjpowell View Post
id like to see someone else have a stab at running the airport element. It would make a great Northern base for Tui, if they focused on it, ran it, and shifted lots of flights from hell hole Manchester
The millions of people who live in and around Manchester and who (combined) pay large quantities of money to fly with TUI are likely to prefer TUI continues to fly from Manchester rather than moving to Doncaster
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Old 17th Jul 2022, 10:54
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Originally Posted by davidjpowell View Post
Ö.It would make a great Northern base for Tui, if they focused on it, ran it, and shifted lots of flights from hell hole Manchester
Are TUI operating an airport anywhere else in their portfolio?
From whatís been said the magical passenger number for airport profitability is 4million pax, other airports achieving that currently have around 15 based airframes, operating first and second waves am/pm - would it be reasonable to expect this from one operator?
shifting over the pennies isnít that far fetched, effectively what Jet2 did out of LBA in reverse, but maintaining a firm presence at LBA in the process, are TUI brave enough to take on Yorkshires airline properly in their own back yard?
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