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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 11th Aug 2022, 18:34
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Official VTTS announcement coming around the 18th - I'd start cancelling the direct debits if I we're you. It's going to be pretty and also goes against the heritage lottery grant terms.
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 18:56
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Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
Are the public booking flights if they read about possible closure.
Looking at social media, some are booking as normal. some are waiting to see and some running around screaming their heads off.

The local conservative MP is very active. There is some political stuff going on, and I;m sure stuff going on that they can't talk about.

Also Oliver Coppard, Mayor of the South Yorkshire region published the below

Since the announcement about the airport a few weeks ago, there are a number of questions I’ve seen crop-up online fairly regularly. I thought it might be helpful to do an FAQs for people, so they can better understand what’s happening and what we’re doing about it.
𝐖𝐡𝐲 𝐢𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 ‘𝐫𝐞𝐯𝐢𝐞𝐰 𝐩𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐨𝐝’ 𝐬𝐨 𝐬𝐡𝐨𝐫𝐭?
Peel have set a very short timetable for the negotiations about the future of the airport, but I’m pushing for them to extend that as quickly as we can, for as long as we can. I’ve asked for 12 months, so we have enough time to properly examine every option. In my discussions with the government’s Aviation Minister (Robert Courts MP) last week, he said Peel had made clear to him that they would be extending the negotiation timetable, and I have asked him to write to Peel to confirm they will be following through on that commitment.
𝐀𝐫𝐞 𝐏𝐞𝐞𝐥 𝐩𝐫𝐞𝐩𝐚𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐭𝐨 𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐥 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐢𝐫𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭?
We’re pushing them on this point. They’ve made some more encouraging noises over the last two weeks, but they have not communicated a firm decision to either keep DSA open or sell it. We’re in a negotiation, so we’re working through all the options, but we have been clear with Peel that our goal is to keep the airport open and operational. My view is that if Peel aren’t prepared or able to make DSA a success, then I want an owner or operator who can.
𝐖𝐡𝐚𝐭 𝐡𝐚𝐩𝐩𝐞𝐧𝐬 𝐢𝐟 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐲 𝐝𝐨𝐧’𝐭 𝐰𝐚𝐧𝐭 𝐭𝐨 𝐬𝐞𝐥𝐥 𝐢𝐭?
Doncaster Council is the Planning Authority and has been explicit with Peel that the airport is at the heart of their plan. But ultimately, Peel are the owners of the airport, so if they refuse to sell, close it down and mothball the site then under the current rules there’s nothing I, the council, the government, or anyone else can do to stop them.
I’m really frustrated by that, but I don’t have any powers to force them into either selling the airport as a going concern or keeping it open and running it themselves.
𝐂𝐚𝐧’𝐭 𝐰𝐞 𝐣𝐮𝐬𝐭 𝐛𝐮𝐲 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐢𝐫𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭?
We’re not ruling anything out. The Mayor of Tees Valley – Ben Houchen – bought Teesside airport and all the land around it from Peel for £40 million. Unfortunately, Teesside has lost a fairly large amount of public money since then (most recently posting losses of £12 million and £14 million over the last two years) as well as losing their Heathrow route. To a certain extent, the development and sale of the land around their airport can be used to offset those losses.
DSA is a bigger airport than Teesside and likely worth much more than, and yet there is much less available land around it.
That doesn’t make it impossible, but my first preference is for a private sector company or consortium with a proven track record to take on the airport if Peel aren’t prepared to keep it going. That’s because the right private sector partner will have the expertise, connections, and access to funding to secure the long-term future of DSA.
I’m also acutely conscious that we’re in a negotiation with Peel and if the public sector were to commit to buying the airport ‘no-matter what’ (as some have advocated) it would wholly undermine our position and essentially mean we were offering to write Peel a blank cheque.
Some people have talked about ‘Compulsory Purchase Orders’. Again, we’re keeping all options on the table. But my priority is saving peoples’ jobs, and a CPO wouldn’t solve the immediate problem of keeping operations going at the airport and maintaining confidence in DSA because it can take years to enforce.
𝐃𝐨𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐩𝐞𝐭𝐢𝐭𝐢𝐨𝐧 𝐰𝐞’𝐯𝐞 𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐬𝐢𝐠𝐧𝐞𝐝 𝐦𝐞𝐚𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐰𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐛𝐞 𝐚 𝐝𝐞𝐛𝐚𝐭𝐞 𝐢𝐧 𝐏𝐚𝐫𝐥𝐢𝐚𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭?
The =AT0hvLGfytvzABAoenRSthW6h7D1DU6gaiXzjLsDY2AYTD9Zcv4W52YGrIb WHaP5iyuaUiKAOBqbU3MbTi2nEwNkF-8uBVtujvDsN0VrqoSYeuErT1WVOqdOTnvnAmp4Plx7YLktZ_AMy6zZHOXvy9 UtM7vRZjNrl93j2OVGlVYOYn36oqXO3ABzYpeY5TxlvSRCx6CH]Change.Org petition is really important because it shows the strength of the support in the community. But it’s not the same thing as an official parliamentary petition. An official parliamentary petition triggers a debate in parliament once 100,000 people have signed it. The =AT0hvLGfytvzABAoenRSthW6h7D1DU6gaiXzjLsDY2AYTD9Zcv4W52YGrIb WHaP5iyuaUiKAOBqbU3MbTi2nEwNkF-8uBVtujvDsN0VrqoSYeuErT1WVOqdOTnvnAmp4Plx7YLktZ_AMy6zZHOXvy9 UtM7vRZjNrl93j2OVGlVYOYn36oqXO3ABzYpeY5TxlvSRCx6CH]change.org petition won’t automatically trigger a debate in parliament although our local MPs can ask for an ‘adjournment debate’ about DSA to happen once parliament returns from their summer recess in September.
𝐈𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐞𝐫𝐞 𝐚 𝐫𝐚𝐢𝐥 𝐥𝐢𝐧𝐤 𝐠𝐨𝐢𝐧𝐠 𝐢𝐧𝐭𝐨 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐚𝐢𝐫𝐩𝐨𝐫𝐭?
The organisation I lead - SYMCA - and Doncaster Council been pushing the government to put a rail link into the airport for years. My predecessor as Mayor – Dan Jarvis – asked the government to extend the East Coast Mainline (ECML) to the airport, which would have cost around £300 million. That request was turned down by the government in 2020: https://www.thestar.co.uk/.../shock-as-ps300m-doncaster...
More recently, after months of negotiations, the government have finally agreed to begin the feasibility work for a more modest scheme – a £30 million extension to the Lincoln Line – through something called CRSTS funding. It’s still a good thing to do, but it won’t have the same benefits the ECML scheme would have had.
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 19:25
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Everyone is wasting their time unfortunately. No way does the airport stay open.

Oliver Coppard knows this as well. He's already been informed.

Passengers flights will end at the end of October, with cargo and general aviation at some point next year.
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 20:18
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
Everyone is wasting their time unfortunately. No way does the airport stay open.

Oliver Coppard knows this as well. He's already been informed.

Passengers flights will end at the end of October, with cargo and general aviation at some point next year.
Cargo maybe sooner - Chapman Freeborn already in active discussions in finding an alternative for the perishable flights.
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 22:16
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
Everyone is wasting their time unfortunately. No way does the airport stay open.

Oliver Coppard knows this as well. He's already been informed.

Passengers flights will end at the end of October, with cargo and general aviation at some point next year.
Timmy, I’m confused for years you have championed any failure of DSA and in the above post you say “unfortunately”??
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Old 11th Aug 2022, 22:23
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ View Post
Timmy, I’m confused for years you have championed any failure of DSA and in the above post you say “unfortunately”??
Perhaps he realises he will be redundant as the forbearer of doom.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 10:35
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No I think he is just being realistic
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 11:31
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Originally Posted by rpmac View Post
No I think he is just being realistic
I agree, though perhaps "glass half full" realistic.

As for the transfer of commercial flights, I suspect that EMA may put in a competitive bid for the Eastern European Wizz operation. They could also be interested in the perishable cargo business, provided of course that DHL could be convinced to handle the flights, which if they are scheduled during the wrong time of the day they may well prefer not to. I don't believe any of the other cargo operators, such as UPS and FedEx are interested in third party handling, but as I don't work on the airport I wouldn't know for sure.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 12:41
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I know business is business but I wouldn’t have thought that EMA would go after Wizz too strongly. I could imagine an awful lot of toys emanating from a certain airline’s pram if they were to arrive on the scene! Perhaps BY may increase their presence with an additional aircraft based.

As far as freight is concerned, I am still not convinced that, even if passenger ops were paused at DSA, then freight might not continue in some form.
If it were to cease, then some may be transferred to EMA, but I doubt the perishable business would. Handling and ramp space could be a problem.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 13:23
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EMA *should* have been or be chasing Wizz,as long as it would be profitable. Every extra airline flying to an airport spreads the risk and prevents EMA being held to ransom by an airline having a tantrum like a toddler
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 13:41
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Originally Posted by Balair View Post

As far as freight is concerned, I am still not convinced that, even if passenger ops were paused at DSA, then freight might not continue in some form.
If it were to cease, then some may be transferred to EMA, but I doubt the perishable business would. Handling and ramp space could be a problem.
HUY has a purpose built perishables hub on site. Not sure I’d like to see them trying to accommodate a 747 though 😂
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 14:11
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Originally Posted by Balair View Post
I know business is business but I wouldn’t have thought that EMA would go after Wizz too strongly. I could imagine an awful lot of toys emanating from a certain airline’s pram if they were to arrive on the scene! Perhaps BY may increase their presence with an additional aircraft based.

As far as freight is concerned, I am still not convinced that, even if passenger ops were paused at DSA, then freight might not continue in some form.
If it were to cease, then some may be transferred to EMA, but I doubt the perishable business would. Handling and ramp space could be a problem.
EMA is less than 40 miles from BHX where Wizz have multiple routes from Wizz, so not sure EMA makes senSe.
More at BHX please if not I think they would chose LBA
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 16:22
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Originally Posted by BHX5DME View Post
EMA is less than 40 miles from BHX where Wizz have multiple routes from Wizz, so not sure EMA makes senSe.
More at BHX please if not I think they would chose LBA

Probably LBA in pole position for any Wizzair routes, especially Bucharest if DSA closes or Wizzair pull out.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 16:39
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Originally Posted by rpmac View Post
Probably LBA in pole position for any Wizzair routes, especially Bucharest if DSA closes or Wizzair pull out.
Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re stealing a March on that now, given the ongoing uncertainty and apparent break down in the commercial relationship at DSA. The routes seem to operate off peak so might be a good fit for LBA given stand constraints at first and second wave periods.
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 18:07
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Originally Posted by pug View Post
Wouldn’t be surprised if they’re stealing a March on that now, given the ongoing uncertainty and apparent break down in the commercial relationship at DSA. The routes seem to operate off peak so might be a good fit for LBA given stand constraints at first and second wave periods.
Or MME?
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 18:10
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Originally Posted by P330 View Post
Or MME?
The idea of MME, which has had a stench of death hanging over it for many years, coming to the rescue of pax at DSA seems a bit of a stretch
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 18:43
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Originally Posted by P330 View Post
Or MME?
The idea of MME, which has had a stench of death hanging over it for many years, coming to the rescue of pax at DSA seems a bit of a stretch
Why?

Personally, I think Wizz will have a good idea of the areas of England of interest to their customers and MME might well be too far out of the way
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 19:13
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Are MME not opening a cargo centre?
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Old 12th Aug 2022, 20:26
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Wizz are in advanced talks with LBA.

I expect something to be announced shortly after DSA closure is confirmed.

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Old 12th Aug 2022, 21:03
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
Wizz are in advanced talks with LBA.

I expect something to be announced shortly after DSA closure is confirmed.
I still want you to be wrong, but do fear that it is inevitable.
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