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Doncaster Sheffield-3

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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 13th Sep 2022, 12:28
  #581 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by mwm991 View Post
Don't think WIZZ going to Leeds is that surprising. The next nearest airport they would have a presence is Liverpool and West Yorkshire is a large growing catchment as is. Despite being away from motorways its still more centralised than Humberside or Teeside and not as far north as Newcastle. Yorkshire/North East aviation needs consolidation not a diluted setup of several small airports. DSA no loss whatsoever to the commercial sector.
BHX is closer to DSA than LPL and Wizz already have many routes from BHX
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 12:40
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Originally Posted by BHX5DME View Post
BHX is closer to DSA than LPL and Wizz already have many routes from BHX
I was talking distance wise from Leeds as opposed to Doncaster.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 15:55
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Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post

Lincoln has pretty lousy public transport to many places... I would suggest public transport to Sheffield, Leeds and Newcastle as major cities should be the reference points in replacing DSA for Wizz
You need to look at where the Wizz customers are in the Uk. They’re not in Leeds, Newcastle or Sheffield in core numbers. The A1 corridor has been and is a significant and efficient conduit for LTN/STN and is unlikely to change. North/South routes are well catered for throughout the Uk, East/West no where near as easy either self drive and much less so with public transport. Which is why LHR/LTN/STN have a customer outreach much further north and east than people expect. They’re easy to get to.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 16:28
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Originally Posted by TBSC View Post
Wizz does not give a * about ILS category. They operate a dozen bases for nearly two decades with CAT I. ILS (all the polish bases until 5-6 years ago, Kutaisi, Tuzla, Sarajevo, Skopje, Kyiv, Lviv, Debrecen, Craiova, Burgas, Varna etc) or sometimes even no ILS at all. They just tried to operate multiple daily flights to an airport (Kukes) with nada landing aids (not even an NDB) and no lighting (other than a PAPI). They failed as it was predicted but they were still stupid enough to try. If they get the money they don't care about operational circumstances.
Well I may be mistaken re LBA ILS CATIII category, but WZZ certainly make regular use of precision approaches in the UK, CAT1 and above. I’m still doubtful on LBA, anyone familiar with WZZ knows they operate late evening flights, and LBA isn’t 24/7 as I recall. That instantly gives late runners a problem with extending airfield hours, handling agents, fuel etc to accommodate those events. So without extending the airport opening hours past 2300L, it’s already compromised as an alternative to DSA.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 16:33
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Originally Posted by jumpseater View Post
Well I may be mistaken re LBA ILS CATIII category, but WZZ certainly make regular use of precision approaches in the UK, CAT1 and above. I’m still doubtful on LBA, anyone familiar with WZZ knows they operate late evening flights, and LBA isn’t 24/7 as I recall. That instantly gives late runners a problem with extending airfield hours, handling agents, fuel etc to accommodate those events. So without extending the airport opening hours past 2300L, it’s already compromised as an alternative to DSA.
Jet2 have 8 arrivals after 23.00 tonight. The Wizz DSA schedule actually looks like a prettuy good fit between Jet2 and RYR waves. There's only two departures from LBA tonight after 18.30, and none after 20.00

Agree yr comments on the catchement areas for Wizz DSA customers though
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 16:44
  #586 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Jet2 have 8 arrivals after 23.00 tonight. The Wizz DSA schedule actually looks like a prettuy good fit between Jet2 and RYR waves. There's only two departures from LBA tonight after 18.30, and none after 20.00

Agree yr comments on the catchement areas for Wizz DSA customers though
I don’t think it’s the arrivals that are the problem, departures being the issue due noise. LBA pretty much full at peak times so not a lot of wriggle room at the minute. Have no doubt discussions are ongoing, as always. But don’t think Wizz will actively want to leave DSA.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 17:16
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Jet2 have 8 arrivals after 23.00 tonight. The Wizz DSA schedule actually looks like a prettuy good fit between Jet2 and RYR waves. There's only two departures from LBA tonight after 18.30, and none after 20.00

Agree yr comments on the catchement areas for Wizz DSA customers though
There are, however as pug notes departures are potentially a problem. Leeds is 24/7 but is ‘by prior arrangement’. Therefore if you have a late runner and you’ve not advised everyone early enough you run into issues such as fuel and handling. The LBA airlines have commercial agreements with the handling agents etc to operate those flights and they’re catered for. Unless an operator has those after in place it’ll mean night stops, or a divert out, all of which add to significant costs, or an aircraft being out of place to operate the first wave.

As Pug also noted, the environmental impact of night departures may also severely restrict the type of operation WZZ regularly does at DSA.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 17:27
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There aren't that many Wizz flights ex DSA and the departure times aren't that late - in the next week all departures are before 23.00. From an LBA point of view, the flights avoid peak times and help fill in the gaps between the based waves.

These points and any handling issues don't look insurmountable. Whether it's the best fit for Pax is a different matter.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 17:56
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LBA is 24H, arrivals and departures, handling and fuelling included. Wizz are not daft, they will have a contract for this stuff in place if the rumours are true. Looking from the outside, a quick look on flight radar shows the Wizz operation fits perfectly. Ryanair seem to do pretty well on Eastern Europe, so no reason why Wizz won’t. I think there is a certain element of denial r.e LBA. If a contract is in place, the flights will operate, simple as that, regardless of times. The auto lands at LBA work pretty well on the airbus, just ask Monarch back in the day.
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Old 13th Sep 2022, 18:05
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‘Serious’ investor proposal could reprieve UK’s Doncaster Sheffield airport

https://www.flightglobal.com/air-tra...150175.article
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 07:57
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Peel's response

https://www.itv.com/news/calendar/20...akeover-option

They don't want to sell. That much is clear. Anyone saving it is just pure fantasy.
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 11:03
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Hopes have been raised that UK regional airport Doncaster Sheffield can be saved from closure thanks to the emergence of a “serious” potential bidder.

Local politicians in the Doncaster and South Yorkshire area of the UK have been in talks with potential buyers of the airport after current owner Peel Group started a consultation process on its future after Wizz Air suddenly withdrew its flights this summer.

Doncaster mayor Ros Jones said there had been “strong market interest” in taking over the regional airport, despite the “currently challenging” market conditions.

“Whilst we continue discussions in principle with several parties, we have one group that we believe is an extremely serious proposition,” explained Jones.

“Our chief executive and senior officers have been leading on the work to save DSA (Doncaster Sheffield airport), alongside the South Yorkshire Mayoral Combined Authority.

“We asked Peel to give us the time to work with this serious potential proposition and to undertake the necessary due diligence as we endeavour to save and secure the long-term future of Doncaster Sheffield airport.”

With the UK currently in official mourning until 20 September following the death of Queen Elizabeth II, Peel Group has agreed to extend the current consultation period on Doncaster Sheffield airport until 26 September. This strategic review had previously been due to end on Friday (16 September).

Local authorities estimate that the airport supports more than 2,700 jobs in the wider economy and contributes £100 million per year to the local and regional economy.

Peel Group said in a statement: “We requested details of the identity of the consortium, but this has not been forthcoming, nor have the terms of any proposal or evidence of the consortium's financial standing or aviation expertise.”
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 11:09
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Peel clearly thought they would make an announcement then run down the airport, don’t think they counted on the level of support from both the public, the politicians and the councils to find alternative viable parties to realise the potential of the Airport. Yes peel still own the Airport, and may not want to sell, but there is clearly now a level of positive pressure on them to re-think their plans. Things have certainly not gone to plan for them.
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 11:55
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For a loss making operation, the price is being driven up nicely
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 12:50
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
For a loss making operation, the price is being driven up nicely
Yes paradoxically….are Peel that clever? or do things like this just fall into their lap?
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 13:13
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There seems to be a large lack of knowledge about LBA & the ops there.. LBA has had 24/7 operations since 1994.. a carbon copy of Wizz's DSA operation would fit perfectly into LBA's arrivals & departures, utilising the terminal in generally quieter periods. I cant imagine Wizz's operation at LBA having any effect / restrictions there. As Jovik mentioned especially winter ops "The auto lands at LBA work pretty well on the airbus, just ask Monarch back in the day". Ryanair manage to sustain a 3 based winter operation, people make out for LBA to be doom and gloom in winter, when only its a tiny fraction of flights that get effected, likewise at other airports. Obviously this is all hypothetically speaking as nothing from DSA has been announced/suspended yet.. LBA is the logical choice, with large demographic similar to DSA living in the catchment areas.
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 13:40
  #597 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ View Post
Yes paradoxically….are Peel that clever? or do things like this just fall into their lap?
Would suggest there must be more than just a couple of brain cells knocking together at Peel given their vast portfolio….

Possible bluff calling from the various local authorities to play the bigger people and gain further extensions to the consultation period - the current period is barely long enough to even scratch the surface of any feasibility studies, let alone due diligence. Not a lot to go off in the public remain currently, so not really possible to judge the situation accurately. My guess is Peel have other plans (£££) at an advanced stage, and the price tag likely to be pretty high if they can be convinced to offload, probably with a heavily restricted land bank from which to draw ancillary revenue.
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Old 14th Sep 2022, 22:55
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Lincoln to EMA is easy enough, both by road and train, 1hr 15 by road and about the same by train. Leeds is far more like 1hr 45 on a good day!
Regarding the catchment area for the routes its is very heavily dependent on Lincolnshire and the farming areas around the Wash, but does attract people from as far north as Darlington.
A better split would be for Humberside and Norwich to share the routes, but I doubt that ll happen
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Old 16th Sep 2022, 15:38
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Originally Posted by onion View Post
Lincoln to EMA is easy enough, both by road and train, 1hr 15 by road and about the same by train. Leeds is far more like 1hr 45 on a good day!
Regarding the catchment area for the routes its is very heavily dependent on Lincolnshire and the farming areas around the Wash, but does attract people from as far north as Darlington.
A better split would be for Humberside and Norwich to share the routes, but I doubt that ll happen
Please God, not Norwich. A pig of a place to get to from North Lincs.
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Old 16th Sep 2022, 16:03
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Originally Posted by wowzz View Post
Please God, not Norwich. A pig of a place to get to from North Lincs.
And most other places which aren't Norwich...
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