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Doncaster Sheffield-3

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Doncaster Sheffield-3

Old 17th Nov 2022, 23:31
  #861 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by OzzyOzBorn View Post
Diff Tail Shim - It is most disappointing to note that your counter-argument to my post comes in the form of deplorable racist hate speech. Use of the 'G' word in the context you deploy it is every bit as racist as dropping the 'N' word, and for exactly the same reasons. I'm sure that Lincolnshire farmers will be surprised to learn that they are "Tory gang masters" offering "shit conditions" too.

It is apparent that you are a person driven by hatred and intolerance rather than rational thought processes. You have blown what little credibility you had.

DSA struggled for the reasons I summarised in post 848. I see no reason to engage with you further.
People I know there have lost their jobs. You lack of common sense is obvious. Airport has gone. I worked there iin the RAF as well. One of the best places in the mob. But you never did. Rotten pork smell.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 00:00
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The airport is closed because there was no strong business model for opening in the first place. Consistent profits were never returned and any ROI just wasn't there. The brutal truth is that the totality of the whole DSA passenger operation has been effortlessly absorbed by nearby airports without as much as a ripple. DSA had no USP, no differentiator. There needed to be a critical mass to stand any chance of being consistently profitable, they never got it. See also Southend and possibly Teesside, both of which are IMHO, similar.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 00:08
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
The airport is closed because there was no strong business model for opening in the first place. Consistent profits were never returned and any ROI just wasn't there. The brutal truth is that the totality of the whole DSA passenger operation has been effortlessly absorbed by nearby airports without as much as a ripple. DSA had no USP, no differentiator. There needed to be a critical mass to stand any chance of being consistently profitable, they never got it. See also Southend and possibly Teesside, both of which are IMHO, similar.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
Don't let Ben Houcin hear you say that. Southend was also extremely busy before COVID. And Brexit. I happened to be on an AOG there and it was rammed before the effects of both and the latter. I am an aviation professional btw. Not a spotter.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 01:56
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Southend drove volume deals with both easyJet and Ryanair which drove short term unsustainable throughput. When the intro deal runs out, the locos relocate the fleet to somewhere with a better deal, SEN never managed to lock them in with a deal that the airport would do well out of. Again, if Southend stopped all passenger ops tomorrow, the totality of the operation would easily be handled by Stansted and others. Like Manston before it, it adds nothing that's net new, it really just cannibalises competitors.

But I know what you mean, it's a crying shame, very painful for local jobs and businesses. Very sad.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 08:11
  #865 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
The airport is closed because there was no strong business model for opening in the first place. Consistent profits were never returned and any ROI just wasn't there. The brutal truth is that the totality of the whole DSA passenger operation has been effortlessly absorbed by nearby airports without as much as a ripple. DSA had no USP, no differentiator. There needed to be a critical mass to stand any chance of being consistently profitable, they never got it. See also Southend and possibly Teesside, both of which are IMHO, similar.
Heartbreaking from one standpoint, but unless you openly operate as public service, that's how it works out.
I think it was built for the low-cost model following the success of Liverpool. Donít think they banked on Leeds changing their strategy. What is telling is that since DSA opened, Ryanair opened a base at LBA and EMA, Jet2 opened a base at EMA and continued expansion from LBA, easyJet tried something a couple of times at DSA (they donít operate anything this part of the world between LTN and NCL!) but that didnít work out for whatever reason. Contrary to popular opinion they have tried to get Jet2 and KLM on board by offering financial incentives to do so but they have remained ambivalent at best.

I do think it could be a success, but it would have to be at the cost of LBA and to an extent EMA. Be interesting to see how these talks conclude. Heard some fantastical rumours about who the bidder(s) is/are and what their influence is and plans are. Believe it when I see it though.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 08:39
  #866 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Skipness One Foxtrot View Post
Southend drove volume deals with both easyJet and Ryanair which drove short term unsustainable throughput. When the intro deal runs out, the locos relocate the fleet to somewhere with a better deal, SEN never managed to lock them in with a deal that the airport would do well out of. Again, if Southend stopped all passenger ops tomorrow, the totality of the operation would easily be handled by Stansted and others. Like Manston before it, it adds nothing that's net new, it really just cannibalises competitors.

But I know what you mean, it's a crying shame, very painful for local jobs and businesses. Very sad.
Iím seeing all the same comments that have been raised previously

Do we ĎNeedí DSA? - No there are alternatives, but similarly do we need a Morrisons popping up next to a Tesco - No, but they do because they are tapping into a market.
Can DSA be viable commercially - Yes but only with the right management and 15-20 based Airframes and letís face it they would need to be bucket and spade operators, and Wizz
Are TUI going to base 15-20 Airframes - No, so DSA would have to try pull in Easy Holidays, Jet2, Ryanair & Wizz
Would that cannibalise the market - Yes but which market?, that depends who bases, TUI & Easy would pull the Yorkshire traffic currently travelling over the Pennines using MAN (they can afford to lose 3m pax), Jet2 would run the risk of closing LBA, Ryanair would hit numbers at MAN, LBA, EMA, BHX, NCL, LPL, Wizz would just return with previous routes.
There is opportunity for a successful facility at DSA, get the right products, in the right volume, at the right price, with the right timings/frequency and the passengers will welcome the opportunity to use the award winning airport. Despite being on a fringe, itís very accessible and convenient, unlike LBA. Look at the support on social media.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 08:47
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How do you get to 15-20 airframes against established incumbents? What would new DSA do that old DSA didn't? How much would need to be spent to accommodate 15-20 based a/c?

Look at the support on social media.
and then look at the support for all the flights attempted over the years. They'll melt away as soon as they can get a cheaper flight somewhere else.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 08:48
  #868 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by G-FORZ View Post
Iím seeing all the same comments that have been raised previously

Do we ĎNeedí DSA? - No there are alternatives, but similarly do we need a Morrisons popping up next to a Tesco - No, but they do because they are tapping into a market.
Can DSA be viable commercially - Yes but only with the right management and 15-20 based Airframes and letís face it they would need to be bucket and spade operators, and Wizz
Are TUI going to base 15-20 Airframes - No, so DSA would have to try pull in Easy Holidays, Jet2, Ryanair & Wizz
Would that cannibalise the market - Yes but which market?, that depends who bases, TUI & Easy would pull the Yorkshire traffic currently travelling over the Pennines using MAN (they can afford to lose 3m pax), Jet2 would run the risk of closing LBA, Ryanair would hit numbers at MAN, LBA, EMA, BHX, NCL, LPL, Wizz would just return with previous routes.
There is opportunity for a successful facility at DSA, get the right products, in the right volume, at the right price, with the right timings/frequency and the passengers will welcome the opportunity to use the award winning airport. Despite being on a fringe, itís very accessible and convenient, unlike LBA. Look at the support on social media.
That post assumes that this hasnít already been tried. When you say Ďright managementí what do you believe they would do differently to the wrong management?

The fundamental problem is lack of demand combined with an already highly competitive operating environment. So if you canít attract airlines away from the competitors then the only way you can make a success of it financially is to scale back on the ambitions and push for small, sustainable growth, with the ultimate outcome being reduced service levels.

Your supermarket analogy is a poor one.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 09:06
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There are official meeting notes (I will try and find them - they are online) which states Peel turned down a low cost carrier (other than Wizz) who wanted to base last year. Also, the comments from alot of people who worked in cargo saying Peel regularly turned away business is alarming.

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Old 18th Nov 2022, 09:13
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
There are official meeting notes (I will try and find them - they are online) which states Peel turned down a low cost carrier (other than Wizz) who wanted to base last year. Also, the comments from alot of people who worked in cargo saying Peel regularly turned away business is alarming.
We have all heard the stories, and I am also aware that a business decision was taken to turn away some business over the last couple of years.

DSA is not the only airport that has turned away business, do your minutes show why they decided to turn away said low-cost airline? Could it be that they were requesting subsidies to do so at a time when Wizzair U.K. had already agreed to expand there, thus causing concern of saturating an already delicate market?

The previous suggestion from G-FORZ is similar, that airlines should cannibalise their own market.. We wouldnít have many airlines around if they employed that sort of business model.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 09:22
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Could it be that they were requesting subsidies to do so at a time when Wizzair U.K. had already agreed to expand there, thus causing concern of saturating an already delicate market?
May have been part of the deal with Wizz for them to open a base
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 09:42
  #872 (permalink)  
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Reading between the lines of the current social medial post from the mayor, a compulsory purchase order is the only hope now. And there is zero chance of it being successful IMO.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 09:47
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Originally Posted by TimmyW View Post
Reading between the lines of the current social medial post from the mayor, a compulsory purchase order is the only hope now. And there is zero chance of it being successful IMO.
Not necessarily, perhaps just an update due to nothing new to report. Doubt there will be an announcement to a negative whilst Peel are under an apparent legal obligation to keep the airport operational. Not sure how they have managed to secure a Judicial Review into a private company, the statement from Ros Jones isnít clear that they have.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 15:53
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what council is going to go out and try and buy an airport in the current financial situation? their voters would turf them out
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 16:02
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Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
what council is going to go out and try and buy an airport in the current financial situation? their voters would turf them out
Never underestimate the electoral power of the prospect of cheap holidays - ask Ben Houchen...
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 17:12
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According to the local MP negotiations are still ongoing, and Doncaster Council are at High Court week commencing 28th.

Not dead yet.
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 17:43
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Doncaster Council are at High Court week commencing 28th.
What are the are the grounds on which they are contesting?
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 17:43
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Originally Posted by davidjpowell
Not dead yet.
Assuming Peel lose, it's going to take a lot of time, energy and money to get DSA back to 1 million pax per year
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Old 18th Nov 2022, 20:18
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Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
What are the are the grounds on which they are contesting?
Not a clue. I don't understand the judicial review angle. It makes no sense to me.

Originally Posted by davidjohnson6 View Post
Assuming Peel lose, it's going to take a lot of time, energy, and money to get DSA back to 1 million pax per year
Not really. Get Tui and Wizz back off you go.

Yes I'm being flippant, but I've no idea who the interested party is and what connections they have


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Old 20th Nov 2022, 11:22
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Update on bidders in today's Telegraph:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business...mpaign=DM66098
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