Quarantine Hypocrisy
Thread Starter
Quarantine Hypocrisy
Given that this is a pilot forum, I’d like to open a thread dedicated to the confusing, illogical and hypocritical nature of the legislation and rules governing quarantine for international pilots domiciled in Australia.
At present there is a dog’s breakfast of rules determining what quarantine requirements a returning crew must complete prior to being allowed out into the wider community depending on which state you preside in.
It’s generally accepted that upon return to Australia, you may complete either 14 days of home quarantine, if you can meet the distancing rules, or otherwise 14 days in a hotel or until your next duty. You have to complete a pcr COVID test every 7 days and on day 10 prior to being released on day 14. Obviously testing negative.
At the moment Queensland Health has determined that crew landing back in Darwin after completion of an international repatriation sector are to quarantine at HWS for 14 days prior to operating an empty aircraft back to Brisbane. No other state requires this. Crew from other states are permitted to home quarantine instead. Remember that the crew are not gallivanting around overseas having a fun time getting boozed up in quant English pubs or a German Beer garden. No, they remain confined to their hotel room for the whole duration of their stay. Masks and PPE is worn to and from the aircraft with minimal contact afforded between themselves and the general public. A significant amount of crew are now fully vaccinated which adds to the illogical position of the authorities in the police state of Australia. I’m not across what happens in WA but could only imagine.
Added to this with the advent of the Tasman bubble throws further fuel on the flames of stupidity. Air New Zealand crew whom operate to a high risk area ,which is currently the USA, are upon return, required to quarantine in a designated hotel for 2 days only and with a negative pcr test are sent on their merry way to mingle and pollute the general public whom could be Aussies having a grand old time in NZ. My God this has to stop immediately. Heaven forbid that the virus could be bought back into Oz via Kiwi crew whom have not quarantined to OZ standards. WTF is going on? Half their luck for the ANZ crew.
The toll the draconian, punitive quarantine policies of Australia are damming and a joke. I’ve lost faith with this country. Perhaps it’s our convict roots but is this heavy handed approach necessary. Pilots are trying to earn a living but listening to the lucky few that are stood up for one month in four, it’s a poisoned chalice. For the poor buggers in continual quarantine for months on end, it’s taking its toll. It sucks the life out of you.
Could someone way smarter than myself point me to the science of such nonsense. I wonder if Anna or McClown are aware of this nefarious loophole that’s apparent with our Kiwi cousin bros. All could be lost unless we shut the borders forthwith. And why is it that the guards at Howard Springs are armed? What the hell have we allowed our country to become?
For crew from other countries we’d like to hear what your governments require for quarantine purposes.
May the discussion continue. And if you’re not a pilot or a flight attendant, we don’t need your shrill chicken little hyperbole.
At present there is a dog’s breakfast of rules determining what quarantine requirements a returning crew must complete prior to being allowed out into the wider community depending on which state you preside in.
It’s generally accepted that upon return to Australia, you may complete either 14 days of home quarantine, if you can meet the distancing rules, or otherwise 14 days in a hotel or until your next duty. You have to complete a pcr COVID test every 7 days and on day 10 prior to being released on day 14. Obviously testing negative.
At the moment Queensland Health has determined that crew landing back in Darwin after completion of an international repatriation sector are to quarantine at HWS for 14 days prior to operating an empty aircraft back to Brisbane. No other state requires this. Crew from other states are permitted to home quarantine instead. Remember that the crew are not gallivanting around overseas having a fun time getting boozed up in quant English pubs or a German Beer garden. No, they remain confined to their hotel room for the whole duration of their stay. Masks and PPE is worn to and from the aircraft with minimal contact afforded between themselves and the general public. A significant amount of crew are now fully vaccinated which adds to the illogical position of the authorities in the police state of Australia. I’m not across what happens in WA but could only imagine.
Added to this with the advent of the Tasman bubble throws further fuel on the flames of stupidity. Air New Zealand crew whom operate to a high risk area ,which is currently the USA, are upon return, required to quarantine in a designated hotel for 2 days only and with a negative pcr test are sent on their merry way to mingle and pollute the general public whom could be Aussies having a grand old time in NZ. My God this has to stop immediately. Heaven forbid that the virus could be bought back into Oz via Kiwi crew whom have not quarantined to OZ standards. WTF is going on? Half their luck for the ANZ crew.
The toll the draconian, punitive quarantine policies of Australia are damming and a joke. I’ve lost faith with this country. Perhaps it’s our convict roots but is this heavy handed approach necessary. Pilots are trying to earn a living but listening to the lucky few that are stood up for one month in four, it’s a poisoned chalice. For the poor buggers in continual quarantine for months on end, it’s taking its toll. It sucks the life out of you.
Could someone way smarter than myself point me to the science of such nonsense. I wonder if Anna or McClown are aware of this nefarious loophole that’s apparent with our Kiwi cousin bros. All could be lost unless we shut the borders forthwith. And why is it that the guards at Howard Springs are armed? What the hell have we allowed our country to become?
For crew from other countries we’d like to hear what your governments require for quarantine purposes.
May the discussion continue. And if you’re not a pilot or a flight attendant, we don’t need your shrill chicken little hyperbole.
Last edited by Troo believer; 27th Apr 2021 at 05:32.
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The covid 19 industry is now pretty much fully fledged in Australia.
No way thats going to change any time soon. This event is the bureaucrats olympics!
The harder everything is made, the more relevent these types become.
Meanwhile, Diggers get locked out of ANZAC DAY services while 80000 attend a football game. Thats a national disgrace of the highest order.
The common thread?. As always. Money.
MCD.
No way thats going to change any time soon. This event is the bureaucrats olympics!
The harder everything is made, the more relevent these types become.
Meanwhile, Diggers get locked out of ANZAC DAY services while 80000 attend a football game. Thats a national disgrace of the highest order.
The common thread?. As always. Money.
MCD.
Last edited by ManillaChillaDilla; 26th Apr 2021 at 08:44.
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Or alternatively, HQ workers and COVID ward staff don't need to isolate after their shifts and free to go about their homes and community as they see fit. Flight Crews on the other hand are treated like diseased animals and locked up. That is where the hypocrisy lies.
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Try the United Kingdom for nonsensical quarantine rules. Enter the UK from a red or amber area and undergo quarantine but, as you are flightcrew, you are allowed to leave quarantine to go to work. Then you can fly back to the very place you’ve just had to quarantine from but upon your return - because you are now entering as crew - you have now been cleansed of potential COVID and the slate is wiped clean, no further quarantine period. And no I am not making this up.
Or alternatively, HQ workers and COVID ward staff don't need to isolate after their shifts and free to go about their homes and community as they see fit. Flight Crews on the other hand are treated like diseased animals and locked up. That is where the hypocrisy lies.
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This bureaucratic Olympics moment is spot on. They won’t lose face over this. Science and stats don’t matter to these people, it’s all about building their empires and protecting their own. They have no skin in this game, it doesn’t affect them unless it starts hurting their bottom dollar.
Troo Believer you asked fro some science:
We have a range of vaccines and some are very questionable but the two mRNA vaccines - Pfizer and Moderna - seem not only to stop serious disease but also to provide sterility ie stop the individual passing on illness by reducing the viral load in the nose. The data is coming out day by day but in healthcare I feel safe based on the science although like you I am told what to do by politicians who seem to ignore the science.
In the UK we are interested in how Australia and NZ will ever open up and save their economies given recent statements by your politicians and the slow rate of vaccination.
PM me and I will find some data for you - IMHO if aircrew are vaccinated with 2 doses of mRNA and have 2 negative PCR tests then they are safe. We need 2 tests not one due to false negatives but as long as they are done by a trained healthcare worker and not self administered they could be done an hour apart. The PCR just checks you arent contaminated. If you want to be really pedantic you could insist on a shower, change of clothes and leaving luggage airside for 72 hours but there was a non peer reviewed paper that found only 1 in 100 cases arose from touching contaminated surfaces, the rest being due to aerosol transmission.
We have a range of vaccines and some are very questionable but the two mRNA vaccines - Pfizer and Moderna - seem not only to stop serious disease but also to provide sterility ie stop the individual passing on illness by reducing the viral load in the nose. The data is coming out day by day but in healthcare I feel safe based on the science although like you I am told what to do by politicians who seem to ignore the science.
In the UK we are interested in how Australia and NZ will ever open up and save their economies given recent statements by your politicians and the slow rate of vaccination.
PM me and I will find some data for you - IMHO if aircrew are vaccinated with 2 doses of mRNA and have 2 negative PCR tests then they are safe. We need 2 tests not one due to false negatives but as long as they are done by a trained healthcare worker and not self administered they could be done an hour apart. The PCR just checks you arent contaminated. If you want to be really pedantic you could insist on a shower, change of clothes and leaving luggage airside for 72 hours but there was a non peer reviewed paper that found only 1 in 100 cases arose from touching contaminated surfaces, the rest being due to aerosol transmission.
Thread Starter
Far from it. What NZ does is totally practical. Just pointing out the glaring stupidity of Australia’s rules. We stay in the same hotel in LAX. What’s the difference?
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The fact that there are so many inconsistencies, from country to country and from state to state proves the Governments have no idea. They just slashed passenger numbers returning from India to 30%. What quantifiable data did they use to come up with 30%? Why not 22% or 71%? Because these idiots are making it up as they go. Some research has shown masks don’t work. Some Vaccines are only 30% effective due to new and evolving strains. Did they pull the trigger on vaccines to quickly? Why are COVID numbers escalating worldwide when vaccines have been handed out for at least a month or more?
I am not a conspiracy theorist nor am I against vaccinations. But the absolute lack of consistency worldwide simply proves that they do not know what they are doing, otherwise it would be the same action everywhere.
Seriously, governments couldn't even run a raffle, so how could people possibly trust and put faith in them with mitigating COVID? All they have done is fail to stem the COVID spread and killed the worlds economy. How’s that working for everyone??
I am not a conspiracy theorist nor am I against vaccinations. But the absolute lack of consistency worldwide simply proves that they do not know what they are doing, otherwise it would be the same action everywhere.
Seriously, governments couldn't even run a raffle, so how could people possibly trust and put faith in them with mitigating COVID? All they have done is fail to stem the COVID spread and killed the worlds economy. How’s that working for everyone??
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Troo Believer,
I sympathise with you as your obviously international, but the whole system is just an unmitigated disaster even for a domestic pilot like me.
Ive put up with 1 year of this crap state by state disaster system that changes daily, gone through seven 2 week quarantine directions, now up to 36 COVID tests and ridiculous and completely inept rules that are all based on land based people, not pilots or cabin crew going through most States weekly. The best I had was arriving into SA after doing simulator in Melbourne during the height of their lockdown last year. SA police asked, have you had a COVID test in the last 7 days? , Me , yeah 6 days ago in QLD before I went to VIC for simulator. SA police officer, right! Your good to go! Lol...The whole thing is a joke and I can only imagine the shambles that would involve international flights, it would be double layered crap.
I sympathise with you as your obviously international, but the whole system is just an unmitigated disaster even for a domestic pilot like me.
Ive put up with 1 year of this crap state by state disaster system that changes daily, gone through seven 2 week quarantine directions, now up to 36 COVID tests and ridiculous and completely inept rules that are all based on land based people, not pilots or cabin crew going through most States weekly. The best I had was arriving into SA after doing simulator in Melbourne during the height of their lockdown last year. SA police asked, have you had a COVID test in the last 7 days? , Me , yeah 6 days ago in QLD before I went to VIC for simulator. SA police officer, right! Your good to go! Lol...The whole thing is a joke and I can only imagine the shambles that would involve international flights, it would be double layered crap.
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Paragraph, I think you’ll find cOVID numbers escalating worldwide are due to the vaccination rates of particular countries, and when India gets involved, it’s population is so huge it skews the worldwide figures...
Sorry edited as wasn’t clear, what I meant to say that you will find the infection rates are dramatically falling in the higher vaccinated countries. India just skews the worldwide result with its massive population and inadequate healthcare system.
Sorry edited as wasn’t clear, what I meant to say that you will find the infection rates are dramatically falling in the higher vaccinated countries. India just skews the worldwide result with its massive population and inadequate healthcare system.
Thread Starter
Thanks Radgirl but I’ve read a ****load of science on the subject. It was a rhetorical question. There is no science. We know that. The Tasman bubble illustrates that beautifully. 14 days compared with 2 days quarantine. Dutton should revoke the bubble immediately and fine anyone having fun in NZ. After all that is the Australian way.
On the subject of ATC being moved to Melbourne. I’ve got a great idea. Outsource it to the FAA? Double the traffic with half the radio calls. End of rant.
On the subject of ATC being moved to Melbourne. I’ve got a great idea. Outsource it to the FAA? Double the traffic with half the radio calls. End of rant.
Or alternatively, HQ workers and COVID ward staff don't need to isolate after their shifts and free to go about their homes and community as they see fit. Flight Crews on the other hand are treated like diseased animals and locked up. That is where the hypocrisy lies.
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I’ll give you all a hint. It wasn’t flight crew!
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A big part of this problem is the senior public servants running the health industry and its responses to the pandemic have been shown to be quite wanting. They are so used to just maintaining the status quo and getting the tax payer to fund it. When something comes out of left centre field they... well... try to ignore it hoping it will go away and be forgotten about.
The health system could do with a huge upheaval. The levels of hypocrisy, inconsistent measures, unnecessary risks, and poor handling of new challenges will just continue to plop along like a dead body rolling downhill.
The health system could do with a huge upheaval. The levels of hypocrisy, inconsistent measures, unnecessary risks, and poor handling of new challenges will just continue to plop along like a dead body rolling downhill.
Anyone want to have a guess at the leading suspect for the Northern beaches was...
It seems some people just don’t want to see. Australia and NZ don’t have a population dying from a hundred different things because there is no oxygen left for their hospitals or running out of places to put the dead.
Yeah it’s sucks, it’s a one in a hundred year pandemic, deal with it and be thankful you are in a country that has done the hard yards were you don’t have to roll a 20kg O2 tank down the street in a futile bid to keep your parents alive.
I got retrenched because of I t after 30 years of flying. Adapt and overcome
It seems some people just don’t want to see. Australia and NZ don’t have a population dying from a hundred different things because there is no oxygen left for their hospitals or running out of places to put the dead.
Yeah it’s sucks, it’s a one in a hundred year pandemic, deal with it and be thankful you are in a country that has done the hard yards were you don’t have to roll a 20kg O2 tank down the street in a futile bid to keep your parents alive.
I got retrenched because of I t after 30 years of flying. Adapt and overcome
Thread Starter
A US based crew member apparently.
Sorry to hear of your retrenchment. The fact remains however that there are massive inconsistencies across the nation and NZ that need addressing. None of it passes the pub test. How does our governments refute this?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/w...to-europe.html
Sorry to hear of your retrenchment. The fact remains however that there are massive inconsistencies across the nation and NZ that need addressing. None of it passes the pub test. How does our governments refute this?
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/04/25/w...to-europe.html
Nunc est bibendum
Troo Believer - Can I guess that you have only just returned to flying?
I was lucky enough to have still been operating continuously through the last 14 months, domestically and internationally. This hypocrisy and unthought out state and federal quarantine idiocy hasn't just started..... I could bore you for hours with COVID tales from the last 14 months, Clamping down on us in some areas and other you could fit the QE2 inside with room to spare.
I kept relatively quiet at the time (and still do) as I felt some survivor guilt and I'm sure that many of you would have rather put up what we were enduring than been on job keeper...
I was lucky enough to have still been operating continuously through the last 14 months, domestically and internationally. This hypocrisy and unthought out state and federal quarantine idiocy hasn't just started..... I could bore you for hours with COVID tales from the last 14 months, Clamping down on us in some areas and other you could fit the QE2 inside with room to spare.
I kept relatively quiet at the time (and still do) as I felt some survivor guilt and I'm sure that many of you would have rather put up what we were enduring than been on job keeper...
