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YMML queue rwy 16 yesterday

Old 29th Nov 2023, 22:51
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YMML queue rwy 16 yesterday

YMML yesterday 25 aircraft waiting for takeoff. Taxi time 90 minutes.

​​​​​​09 would have been ok , why not use it, only a few arrivals into Essendon on 17 you could send a few departures in the meantime until the next Essendon arrival comes.

what about gate holds?

Anyone from ATC able to comment?

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Old 29th Nov 2023, 22:56
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90 minute taxi is an embarrassment. Why would you continue to approve aircraft to push back. Hold them at the gate! When a Jetstar lands let a Jetstar pushback, when an International lands let an international pushback ect. This would ensure 10,000+ L of fuel arenít wasted and gates are still available when an aircraft lands.
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Old 29th Nov 2023, 23:57
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Heads need to roll at ASA management.

A mate who was involved told me they waited more than 90 minutes and there was
- a few return to blocks as people ran short of fuel
- people shutting down engines to try and scrape enough fuel together to legally depart
- 2000í spacing between arrivals and only one departure in between if you were lucky

ATC have made it very clear in the past that they donít use 09 for departures because they just donít know how to, havenít got the SIDS - nor training on how to do it.

ABSOLUTE disgrace.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 00:25
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We need to send some ATC folk for work on exchange in the USA - LAX, ORD, NYC, DFW TWR, TRACON, RAPCON - to experience, learn and bring back better ways to deal with high density traffic and bad weather. The traffic and weather they deal with daily there are on another level.
ramble on is online now  
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 01:56
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Hey man you've got to see the BIG picture! 1.5 hrs of sweet Jane Benjamin for me!

Oh I forgot QF SH is block time only! Sorry guys.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 02:32
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It was a joke. Coordinator for pushback clearance, ok, we call, he gives approval. He did this despite knowing we had a 90 minute taxi delay ahead of us. Why the **** can't they just issue a start time like literally any other 3rd world country?




Take a bow Melbourne.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 03:25
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Crazy, happened to me a few weeks ago, there was no mention of delays so we pushed back and taxied for 48 minutes! Honestly, just tell me there is a fricken big queue and give me a start time so I don’t piss away 1500kg of fuel sitting in a queue.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 03:43
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Where do you put the arriving aircraft if you're all still parked at the gate?
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 03:47
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Originally Posted by ramble on
We need to send some ATC folk for work on exchange in the USA - LAX, ORD, NYC, DFW TWR, TRACON, RAPCON - to experience, learn and bring back better ways to deal with high density traffic and bad weather. The traffic and weather they deal with daily there are on another level.
Airports like JFK are notorious for queues for 30+ aircraft waiting to takeoff
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 03:52
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Originally Posted by le Pingouin
Where do you put the arriving aircraft if you're all still parked at the gate?
1 for 1 champ, when one of the same flavour calls tower on final you let one of the same flavour push back.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 03:54
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Originally Posted by Slippery_Pete
- people shutting down engines to try and scrape enough fuel together to legally depart

ABSOLUTE disgrace.
How did they start their engine again?! Where Iím at we need clearance that itís clear behind and only way we can do that is if someone is connected or hand signal.

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Old 30th Nov 2023, 04:02
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You burn less on the ground than the guys going around and around in the air. Why did you decide to push back? Your company is well aware of the situation on the ground. Why are they launching flights inbound when they know the situation on the ground?

So you get an arrival and one pushes back to join the departure queue as number 19 champ?
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 04:39
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Originally Posted by blakemc
Airports like JFK are notorious for queues for 30+ aircraft waiting to takeoff
My JFK record is 84, with 2 hours 40 minutes from pushback to takeoff.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 05:04
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When ATC pay the fuel bill, the fix will be overnight.

Had a large start delay out of China the other night. At least they kept us at the gate. We took off within 3 minutes of when they said we would.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 05:22
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In the good ole days AOI VOL 2 said ATC was supposed to be safe, orderly and expeditious.

If only you bus fliers knew the real facts…..

Just be thankful it was safe….orderly and expeditious…..ROTFALMAO

C’mon just think of it as stimulating the economy, some controllers made nearly half a million this year, so I’m told.

We all know that money compensates for a lot of fatigue.

Is it a problem that they work almost 1000 hrs of OT a year???

Y’all keep them eyes on the TCAS now.

Y’all have a good one!
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 06:09
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Why on earth is anyone surprised

This has been ongoing for decades, it annoys ATC as well I can assure everyone of that...

ATC can only work with the crap infrastructure its been provided with by the @r$# clowns that lease/own the joint.

Melbourne was due a 3rd RWY before the GFC in 2008, the place has not fundamentally changed since it was built 50+ years ago.

My advice to all those out there, please complain to your company, get them to complain to Melbourne airport...if enough of that occurs they might finally do something about it...

Although the wind may have been favourable, the cloud base most likely precluded 2 RWY operations utilising RWY 09 for arrivals RWY 16 departures due YMEN operations and circling for RWY 17......

Firing adhoc 09 departures into what was occurring to the east of Melbourne would have been unhelpful and reckless, at some point workload and complexity will overwhelm an individual.

This is an infrastructure issue, nothing more nothing less.

Don't blame ATC for RWY 16 IMC, we've always been doing our best with a ****zen sandwich.

Last edited by Done and done; 30th Nov 2023 at 08:47.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 07:09
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Originally Posted by le Pingouin
Why did you decide to push back?
Because you've got to join the queue at somestage.
The whole point being discussed here is that if start times/sequences were given you would be in the queue without having to push.

Its not as simple as saying the companys know whats going on so why send aircraft inbound either. The airlines will need to make that decision a few hours prior and they won't have a clue what the departure queue is going to look like that far out.
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 07:19
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Originally Posted by Dj Dave
YMML yesterday 25 aircraft waiting for takeoff. Taxi time 90 minutes.

​​​​​​09 would have been ok , why not use it, only a few arrivals into Essendon on 17 you could send a few departures in the meantime until the next Essendon arrival comes.

what about gate holds?

Anyone from ATC able to comment?
Hi, roughly what time was this?
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 07:21
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COBT for departures - itís that simple
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Old 30th Nov 2023, 07:29
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Perth use COBT's for departure every morning. Why can't a place like Melbourne? How embarrassing. But Melbourne has always had crap ATC, we've had many thread about it, can't imagine why it would change now.
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