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Same Job Same Pay legislation

Old 7th Dec 2023, 03:09
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Same Job Same Pay legislation

Laborís same-job, same-pay laws pass parliament after deal with Lambie and Pocock

This law looks set to pass parliament today. What effect, if any, will this have on aviation? Jacqui Lambie mentioned flight attendants as one group of workers that should benefit. Would it apply to pilots too? Hard to see any justification from Coward St why an A320 pilot should be paid any less than a 737 pilot flying RPT with a red rat on the tail.

Last edited by brokenagain; 7th Dec 2023 at 03:37.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 03:29
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I would like to feel optimistic that it will help many in the aviation industry but feel sure that Qantas been the gorilla in the cage will have every excuse why it doesn’t apply and ultimately will go thru the court system for years as they did with the baggage handlers.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 03:32
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Originally Posted by dragon man
I would like to feel optimistic that it will help many in the aviation industry but feel sure that Qantas been the gorilla in the cage will have every excuse why it doesnít apply and ultimately will go thru the court system for years as they did with the baggage handlers.
Yep. QF will take it all the way to the high court every time. Nothing really changes much.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 04:28
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Originally Posted by brokenagain
Laborís same-job, same-pay laws pass parliament after deal with Lambie and Pocock

This law looks set to pass parliament today. What effect, if any, will this have on aviation? Jacqui Lambie mentioned flight attendants as one group of workers that should benefit. Would it apply to pilots too? Hard to see any justification from Coward St why an A320 pilot should be paid any less than a 737 pilot flying RPT with a red rat on the tail.
Mainline SOs with different payscales in the same cockpit.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 04:37
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Mainline SOs with different payscales in the same cockpit.
I can see QF arguing in court that an A-320 job in one state is different to a 737 job in a different state because there are lots of differences to point to, ( lots that the lawyers can bring up) but I can’t imagine them getting a win with SO’s on the same routes in the same metal with the same training departments and the same pay master, carrying the same pax. That really is the same job with different pay.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 05:16
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That's why it has LINK on it.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 09:17
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Finally, a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD. Can't we all work on a level playing field instead a Toxic one.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 10:52
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I think some of you have swallowed too much Government Kool-Aid.

This legislation is not about comparing pilots in one company flying a particular type of aircraft, with pilots in another company, even if theyíre flying the same aircraft.

Itís about comparing pilots employed by Pilots-r-us-Labour-Hire/ Parc/Rishworth wages, with Big-Airline wages when Big-Airline wants to hire in some temps.

The temp pilot wages can no longer undercut the money paid to directly employed Big-Airline pilots (either on the Award or on an EBA).

Check with your Shop-Steward/Employment Lawyer.

Regards
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 11:23
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Originally Posted by ShandywithSugar
That's why it has LINK on it.
This is the exact reason why the flash new A220 has Link on it!
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 19:56
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So this only affects labour hire to the mainline brand? They can outsource the entire airline, even to foreign owned carriers and that's perfectly acceptable but if you Labour hire to mainline then you have to get paid the same? How does that then affect codesharing because that has your brand on it? If an Australian airline code shares with third world country's airline with Australian flight numbers all over is that OK? Is this the new future that Labor has just created?

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Old 7th Dec 2023, 20:46
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And the band rolls on.
Nothing changes at QF. If you have a qantas asic, you are the enemy. They will do everything, up to including the high court, to manoeuvre around having to accept you as part of the long term vision. That strategy is about the only long term vision in the place.
Commands will remain close to 20 years forever. Short haul Qantas contracts will be managed to oblivion. As will the long haul stuff.
One only has to look at the total number of airframes international has.
At least they will be supplying full operational support to Alliance and network. In the mean time 737s depart Melbourne without any catering. Thats' what the joint has become.
Nothing changes. Qantas employee = enemy.
Once you get your head around that and accept it, you'll have a great day out.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 21:24
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Will this legislation put an end to the practice of growing another entity next to, say SH, and then (not) transferring business to that entity? Does this mean the wholly owned subsidiaries that already exist are the only non mainline entities from now on? Interesting legislation and it will be interesting to see how management ooze through the cracks to undermine it.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 23:25
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Originally Posted by gordonfvckingramsay
Will this legislation put an end to the practice of growing another entity next to, say SH, and then (not) transferring business to that entity? Does this mean the wholly owned subsidiaries that already exist are the only non mainline entities from now on? Interesting legislation and it will be interesting to see how management ooze through the cracks to undermine it.
As it is reported it will encourage exactly that.
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 23:35
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I think the next round of the Bill ( part 2) which is being read in the New Year is supposed to deal with Ďshamí businesses so maybe the process of starting or buying a small business with lower paid workers and then encouraging it to take over tasks that the core business historically undertook will be addressed there? It will be tricky to determine legally what is legitimate business practice as opposed to deliberately circumventing established Fair Work EAís
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Old 7th Dec 2023, 23:40
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I guess the other question is how does this affect Alliance as they have a different EBA for every state and operation
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 03:12
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guess the other question is how does this affect Alliance as they have a different EBA for every state and operation
I haven’t read the bill but from what I’ve seen in the press I imagine Alliance would be ok there because the different operations have EBA’s and they aren’t bringing staff in from a labour-hire company to avoid paying the EBA rates.
The trickiest one for the Qantas lawyers will be cabin crew in my opinion. Often there will be crew doing the same job at the same time on the same aircraft but one will be on less pay because they have been employed through a labour-hire company. Jetconnect pilots may prove to be a headache because they no longer have an AOC. If there is no AOC I doubt Jetconnect can be considered an Airline, so is it a labour-hire company that this law was designed to target? The previous attempt by AIPA to bring Jetconnect pilots inside the tent might play out differently if tested in the current political environment. When they last tried Jetconnect was an actual Airline. It would be a good move to bolster SH considering the impending fleet renewal will most likely bring route changes out of NZ due to greater range capabilities of the new aircraft.
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 04:31
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Where is Jetconnect going to fall in the scope of this legislation given it is an NZ based employment agreement?
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 05:02
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Originally Posted by Captain Fun
Where is Jetconnect going to fall in the scope of this legislation given it is an NZ based employment agreement?
I imagine if they are operating VH rego aircraft for an Australian company, there will be some restrictions.
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 11:35
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I can see QF arguing in court that an A-320 job in one state is different to a 737 job in a different state because there are lots of differences to point to, ( lots that the lawyers can bring up) but I can’t imagine them getting a win with SO’s on the same routes in the same metal with the same training departments and the same pay master, carrying the same pax. That really is the same job with different pay.
But the new S/O’s are working under the exact same EA as the existing S/O’s. You think the FWC going to take the new SO’s off LHEA10 and put them on what??

Even without the new pay scale, an existing 12 year A380 S/O is being paid about 85% more than year 1 380 S/O. It’s not illegal. When either of them take a promotion they will be on the same pay scale as each other for the rest of their Qantas career.

I hope the new legislation can stop Qantas’s race to the bottom, multiple subsidiary, IR tactics but the above scenario is not going to be affected.
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Old 8th Dec 2023, 13:28
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I donít think we really know the specifics of how the new IR laws will affect the industry, theyíll take time to be embedded and then thereíll probably be lengthy legal challenges by unions against some employment practices so itíll take take in the wash up to see what changes occur.

But in a broader sense seeing how the business lobby, the opposition and the media have lined up the attack the new laws tells me overall they must be a good thing for workers
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