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Congratulations on the Payrise (Paycut)

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Congratulations on the Payrise (Paycut)

Old 22nd Nov 2022, 11:26
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Congratulations on the Payrise (Paycut)

Salary will go up 3.3%, and this is across all CX! Well done to all those who were resilient and met their productivity targets! Speaking of productivity targets, we have also increased your Minimum productivity hours that in essence gives you (and saves the company) a 10% paycut. Effectively nullifying your pay rise three-fold.

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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 11:57
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Just keep in mind that inflation in HK was sitting on 4.4% in September. This is before the slight fudging of figures. The reality is that this is another step that accelerated the departure of talent to other airlines. Most are just waiting for that DOJ to say 拜拜.
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 12:10
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what is the min hours now?
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Old 22nd Nov 2022, 19:34
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Originally Posted by carolknows
what is the min hours now?
47.9/38.5 Airbus/747
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Old 23rd Nov 2022, 00:19
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and 777?
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Old 23rd Nov 2022, 12:26
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At inflation of 10 percent worldwide, that is a net 6.7 percent pay cut.
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Old 24th Nov 2022, 04:43
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Oasis, I'm surprised that you omitted to mention Turkey 36% Argentina 51% Zimbabwe 60% inflation as these rates are equally irrelevant to Hong Kong as is your (misquoted ) worldwide inflation rate of 10%.
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Old 24th Nov 2022, 09:29
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
Oasis, I'm surprised that you omitted to mention Turkey 36% Argentina 51% Zimbabwe 60% inflation as these rates are equally irrelevant to Hong Kong as is your (misquoted ) worldwide inflation rate of 10%.
Accolades, Hong Kong rates better than Zimbo !
Back to Wanchai VOCH, you have proven your irrelevance.
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Old 24th Nov 2022, 09:39
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
Oasis, I'm surprised that you omitted to mention Turkey 36% Argentina 51% Zimbabwe 60% inflation as these rates are equally irrelevant to Hong Kong as is your (misquoted ) worldwide inflation rate of 10%.
Most expat pilots in Hong Kong won't stay in hong Kong and will eventually return to their respective countries, so I'm making the point that it is those inflation rates that should be looked at.
It doesn't matter if Hong Kong magically escapes this inflation (it won't, look at the energy prices about to go up), if it means you have to work 2 extra years to retire in your home country, it is definitely relevant.

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Old 24th Nov 2022, 09:40
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And even the developed world is facing inflation of at least 10% in the next few months. So not sure where you’re getting your stats from.
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 01:40
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Did i mention that the inflation was less than 10% Menelaus ?
My point being that few major employers can afford pay increases equal to the inflation rates being experienced across many continents.

You may have read that half of UK workforce will be on strike prior to Christmas asking for ridiculously high and unaffordable pay increases which will achieve nothing positive as employers cannot afford to pay.

The reason why you diehard Cathay haters post the nonsense that you do has in my opinion little or nothing to do with pay or much else and much and more to do with venting your frustrations and unbridled dislike for Cathay and the fact that the airline is rebuilding fast ,living within its means, expanding and employing thousands.

Our youngest boy finishes school next year is then going to flight school, then to university and if all goes will intends on to fly for the airline. This without a shred of encouragement from us in fact the opposite with the insistence on a university degree being ours. He is just one of 3 HK born to expats in his year intending to fly for Cathay.
I mention this as only to illustrate that it is very unlikely that Cathay will experience a pilot shortage going forward local or otherwise
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 03:53
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The airline wont have a pilot shortage when the DFO is actively campaigning for single pilot ops/automation.
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 04:35
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
...the fact that the airline is rebuilding fast...
A recent CX capacity update said the "Group" is on track to achieve one-third of its pre-pandemic passenger capacity by the end of 2022. The Group anticipates 70% by the end of 2023 and is aiming for 100% by the end of 2024. Meanwhile, Singapore Airlines is already back at 77% of its pre-pandemic passenger capacity and has been operating at over 50% all year. CX "rebuilding fast"? Hmmm......

https://www.cathaypacific.com/conten...-update_en.pdf

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/p...tats-oct22.pdf
https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/p...tats-jan20.pdf

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Old 25th Nov 2022, 04:59
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
Did i mention that the inflation was less than 10% Menelaus ?
My point being that few major employers can afford pay increases equal to the inflation rates being experienced across many continents.

You may have read that half of UK workforce will be on strike prior to Christmas asking for ridiculously high and unaffordable pay increases which will achieve nothing positive as employers cannot afford to pay.

The reason why you diehard Cathay haters post the nonsense that you do has in my opinion little or nothing to do with pay or much else and much and more to do with venting your frustrations and unbridled dislike for Cathay and the fact that the airline is rebuilding fast ,living within its means, expanding and employing thousands.

Our youngest boy finishes school next year is then going to flight school, then to university and if all goes will intends on to fly for the airline. This without a shred of encouragement from us in fact the opposite with the insistence on a university degree being ours. He is just one of 3 HK born to expats in his year intending to fly for Cathay.
I mention this as only to illustrate that it is very unlikely that Cathay will experience a pilot shortage going forward local or otherwise

okay, a 17 year old wants to be a pilot. This is also the dream for many young people but if he thinks it’s a viable career then that’s where you as a parent failed. Pay at CX is trailing experience and will get worse and worse as time marches on, for example, 10 years working for CX, a person will be an FO2 which is approximately x1.5 the pay of an SO which, accounting for inflation is still not that much (Excluding pilot allowance). Whereas a lawyer, finance or an IT professional working their way through their chosen career will be making a lot more in 10 years than what a CX pilot makes.

Example: Friend joined HSBC in financial planning at the same time I joined CX. He started on approximately $50k per month, he now has a team working for him and pulls in $200k per month.

Being a pilot is no longer a “lucrative” career and very limited earning potential and the inability to negotiate his own terms and remuneration. When your child realises that, it might be too late to start over again.




Last edited by Babyjet_dododo; 25th Nov 2022 at 05:39.
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 05:05
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Remind me please BuzzBox how long is it now that Singapore Airlines has enjoyed an environment free of any pandemic restrictions ? Still they have you say only recovered to 77% capacity.........is it not taking them a rather long time ?
I say again that Cathay is rebuilding fast given the restrictions imposed on it. I booked down to Sydney in Feb and noticed 3 flights a day available again.
From what I read your local international airline seem unlikely to to have much available capacity at all shortly given that I read 90% of cabin crew look to have voted to strike over Christmas.
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 05:26
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veryoldchinahand “Our youngest boy finishes school next year is then going to flight school, then to university and if all goes will intends on to fly for the airline.”

Sounds like a no brainer, dad paying, guaranteed job with CX and a few forms to fill in.


Hope his addiction to Kool-aid doesn’t stuff up his initial class one.
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 06:10
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No cool -aid (whatever that is) and no guaranteed job +plenty of forms. The lad will need to find his own way (and has been working part time for the past 2 years to pay for the lessons and will need to pay me back for the balance) if he even gets in.
Not a pleasant post- get a life.
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 06:24
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Originally Posted by BuzzBox
A recent CX capacity update said the "Group" is on track to achieve one-third of its pre-pandemic passenger capacity by the end of 2022. The Group anticipates 70% by the end of 2023 and is aiming for 100% by the end of 2024. Meanwhile, Singapore Airlines is already back at 77% of its pre-pandemic passenger capacity and has been operating at over 50% all year. CX "rebuilding fast"? Hmmm......

https://www.cathaypacific.com/conten...-update_en.pdf

https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/p...tats-oct22.pdf
https://www.singaporeair.com/saar5/p...tats-jan20.pdf
The timeframe CX is rebuilding their network is considered lightening speed by CX standards. Considering it takes them 3 years to research and implement a route, where other carriers can do it in 6 months
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 06:29
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
Remind me please BuzzBox how long is it now that Singapore Airlines has enjoyed an environment free of any pandemic restrictions ? Still they have you say only recovered to 77% capacity.........is it not taking them a rather long time ?
I say again that Cathay is rebuilding fast given the restrictions imposed on it. I booked down to Sydney in Feb and noticed 3 flights a day available again.
From what I read your local international airline seem unlikely to to have much available capacity at all shortly given that I read 90% of cabin crew look to have voted to strike over Christmas.
You missed the point. Cathay Pacific does not anticipate reaching 70% capacity for another year and full capacity for another two years. That's to be expected, but it's not "fast", no matter how you might try and spin it otherwise.
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Old 25th Nov 2022, 09:27
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Originally Posted by Babyjet_dododo
Salary will go up 3.3%, and this is across all CX! Well done to all those who were resilient and met their productivity targets! Speaking of productivity targets, we have also increased your Minimum productivity hours that in essence gives you (and saves the company) a 10% paycut. Effectively nullifying your pay rise three-fold.
Sorry I'm a bit confused. I thought pilots were paid by a full salary regardless of how many hours you fly...Not any more now? coz my uncle used to work for Dragonair but he never said anything about productivity targets, minimum productivity hours etc....
It all sounds like a sales job to me, like you make a base salary + commission. So if I don't meet the minimum productivity hours, I won't get paid? I don't understand
I work for a bank now, 5 days a week, 8 hours a day, I get paid a full salary and we don't' have minimum productivity hours this kind of thing. Anyone can help?
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