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Pilot Shortage in Hong Kong

Fragrant Harbour A forum for the large number of pilots (expats and locals) based with the various airlines in Hong Kong. Air Traffic Controllers are also warmly welcomed into the forum.

Pilot Shortage in Hong Kong

Old 3rd Jul 2022, 12:21
  #101 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: LA
Posts: 160
Originally Posted by VforVENDETTA View Post
Watch for an announcement to raise cos18 pay to prove it all. If all is well as you say why would they do thatdoit will of course be too little too late but it will be proof of their desperation and panic.
So you really think an announcement for a pay rise to CoS18 is imminent? On this note we disagree.

Those who are staying are saying it's still a good gig, the money is still good, HK will recover, low taxes, 3rd runway, productivity pay is great, a huge pay rise is looming, commuter rosters will happen, and CX will recover as its been around for so long and its' cash rich etc.

Those who are leaving are saying CX is finished, it's going to be bought out, Swire sold CX City as they are setting up for a sale, Swire's management of CX is up for renewal on Dec 31st and this is a sign. Covid restrictions will continue indefinitely and HK is finished. The list goes on and on...

So who is correct? The ones leaving want to believe it's over so they can sleep better at night and the same applies for those who are staying. The truth is that no one knows, only the upper echelons, so literally everything at our level as peasants in the village is just pure speculation. Only Swire hold the answers and I guess all will be revealed over there in HK within the next 6-12 months. In 2023 you can all revisit this thread and see who was on the money.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 12:38
  #102 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 15
Correct, we don't know what the shareholders want for this business, we can only assume, and the only assumption I can make is expansion.
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 12:42
  #103 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: HKG
Age: 52
Posts: 255
As much as I want to say STW is completely wrong. I am afraid much of what he says is very correct and valid. The other opinions are what our ego's want to believe is true. I want to believe it's true, just like I want to believe things will go back to normal soon. But the pure fact is a lot of what is being stated is complete fantasy. Especially when Margaret Thatcher was quoted as saying you want workers to be rebelling to know that you are not overpaying. I don't see any rebellion just volunteers to come join, volunteers to stay ( yeah sure some are leaving... But not enough), volunteers to train ( if ever it was a crappy deal now is the time, but no shortage of wannabes), volunteers to do FDAP and all manner of free stuff. When this stops, maybe then STW will be wrong. But until then a spade is a spade. I so wish it wasn't!
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Old 3rd Jul 2022, 21:49
  #104 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 15
Originally Posted by Sam Ting Wong View Post
I don't get your point, but in general you guys totally overestimate the interest in what any minion employee wants. Nobody cares, wake up.

Consider the nature of the business. You stop a route for years and it will take many months to open it up again. Selling tickets, promotion,getting the aircraft out of storage, renegotiating traffic rights, slots, handling etc etc. You guys are too self-centric. Pilots are just a small piece of the whole.
Thanks STW, I am glad our "minions" will be able to take comfort in the fact that this issue will be sorted within months.
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Old 4th Jul 2022, 02:55
  #105 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2022
Location: Angola
Posts: 8
I am not sure we are short or at least very short.
They are covering the bus with recruits from local airlines and pushing the 74 a bit, the 777 is dead at the moment and can still send a few back.
A few more leaving after school finished in the next few months, the rest at the beginning of next year, probably a few more when the right jobs come up.
Then maybe they will assess the situation, also they historically just react.
International pax travel wonít come back anytime soon and when it will not only it wonít be the same but people will probably be flying Turkish, KLM and the rest that served them much better than CX during Covid.
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Old 4th Jul 2022, 04:31
  #106 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Bottom of the Harbour
Posts: 354
Swire tactic 101, introduce a new contract to attract the talent, they have been doing this for 30 years.

Why explode your wages cost when you have 2000 pilots sitting in HK sucking up COS18.

Must be time for COS22 (COS18 with enhanced benefits), but the usual caveats to screw when required..

Last edited by KABOY; 4th Jul 2022 at 05:14.
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Old 4th Jul 2022, 06:00
  #107 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 36
Swire 101, lease aircraft because interest rates are low, oops... now interest rates are through the roof and repayments cost a fortune. Oh well, in 24 days time the music stops and the board members won't have seats to sit on.
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Old 4th Jul 2022, 07:23
  #108 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: England
Posts: 594
Wait until the Ba5 variant hits China, as it will. You ain’t seen nothing yet when it comes to lockdowns… those who can leave, leave now.
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Old 4th Jul 2022, 07:33
  #109 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by Kitsune View Post
Wait until the Ba5 variant hits China, as it will. You ainít seen nothing yet when it comes to lockdownsÖ those who can leave, leave now.
Best believe Iím on my way. My 3 monthís is almost up, then Iíll be out of here as fast as I came!

Oh and you can keep the furnitureÖ
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Old 4th Jul 2022, 12:26
  #110 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong kong
Posts: 63
Oli 777 you may wish as do others here that seem to be on some sort of delusional universe based on hating Cathay that the fleet is leased but of course as is most of the other nonsense it is just not the reality.
2 X A350s leased 30+ others owned etc etc.
Perhaps time to give it a rest fellows
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 05:18
  #111 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand View Post
Oli 777 you may wish as do others here that seem to be on some sort of delusional universe based on hating Cathay that the fleet is leased but of course as is most of the other nonsense it is just not the reality.
2 X A350s leased 30+ others owned etc etc.
Perhaps time to give it a rest fellows

You sir are completely wrong with your figures.. please leave the boardroom
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 06:20
  #112 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong kong
Posts: 63
I wonder sometimes what you fellows are smoking that produces the nonsense that you feel compelled to post here
Cathay A350 fleet = 43 aircraft (9 parked) +4 on order
Owned = 41 Leased = 2 aircraft namely B-LXK and B-LRA
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 10:31
  #113 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: somewhere
Posts: 37
Who owns the leasing company

Itís been a while since I looked at it, but itís always worth following the trail through to have a look at the origins of the leasing company.
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 12:58
  #114 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand View Post
I wonder sometimes what you fellows are smoking that produces the nonsense that you feel compelled to post here
Cathay A350 fleet = 43 aircraft (9 parked) +4 on order
Owned = 41 Leased = 2 aircraft namely B-LXK and B-LRA

I got my information from the latest Cathay Pacific financial report, page 73

If you can drop your attitude and whatever nonsense you are smoking, then please tell me w​​​here did you get your information from?

Last edited by Oli777; 5th Jul 2022 at 13:18.
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 14:29
  #115 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by Oli777 View Post
I got my information from the latest Cathay Pacific financial report, page 73

If you can drop your attitude and whatever nonsense you are smoking, then please tell me w​​​here did you get your information from?
Oli777, the same document (p. 17) shows Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd leasing 31 aircraft out of a fleet size of 193 aircraft. The figure of 31 includes 5 defunct Dragon narrow body aircraft and as noted, just 2 leased A350. A fairly impressive rate of aircraft ownership donít you think?
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 15:39
  #116 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: asia
Posts: 15
For the last 30 years evey time there has been a perceived pilot shortage it has been swiftly followed by a massive collapse in demand which has put the balance of power firmly with the employer. Will it be different this time?
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 15:49
  #117 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 36
Originally Posted by Rico_Corp View Post
Oli777, the same document (p. 17) shows Cathay Pacific Airways Ltd leasing 31 aircraft out of a fleet size of 193 aircraft. The figure of 31 includes 5 defunct Dragon narrow body aircraft and as noted, just 2 leased A350. A fairly impressive rate of aircraft ownership donít you think?
Page 73, it's written clearly
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Old 5th Jul 2022, 19:16
  #118 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: somewhere
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by Wombaticus View Post
For the last 30 years evey time there has been a perceived pilot shortage it has been swiftly followed by a massive collapse in demand which has put the balance of power firmly with the employer. Will it be different this time?
Hard to put demand and Hong Kong in one sentence.. even when the flying comes back to a double digit % of pre covid capacity which is at least a year off by the looks of things with closed borders, the current pilot numbers wonít be able to service this.

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Old 6th Jul 2022, 01:59
  #119 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Hong kong
Posts: 63
Oli77 The answer to your question = a Cathay source earlier this week.
I have been told though that 99% the same information is also freely available on the internet.

I have not checked leasing of the whole fleet as it is fluid with many older aircraft being returned to the leasers month by month with another ex dragon being returned this week and some aircraft on loan to other airlines.
If you have the urge to post more deliberately misleading information presumably with the aim of of painting a falsely negative picture of the health of the airline then I suggest that you perhaps find a more productive pursuit as you and several others posting the same sort of nonsense over the past months, with presumably the one intention of destroying the general perception of the airline, are in danger of turning this important forum into a dangerous Trumpesk comedy thread.

Demand - Boston and daily NY and LA back this month as well as flights to the sub-continent with most passenger flights now full both ways and several with waiting lists.
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Old 6th Jul 2022, 02:40
  #120 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2020
Location: HK
Posts: 61
Now now children, no need to yell at each other. Itís not that hard to post sources.



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