Pilot Shortage in Hong Kong
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You militant guys certainly have thin skins and seemingly need to resort to abusive personal attacks on those who express reasoned but different views !
For the record I have several friends who for many years enjoyed packages recently (last say 5/7 years) of upwards of HK$4 million including benefits
It would perhaps be interesting to many to know what other top airlines with decent modern fleets are offering better stable and readily available packages at your current level working in what is generally deemed to be a civilised and safe environment.
For the record I have several friends who for many years enjoyed packages recently (last say 5/7 years) of upwards of HK$4 million including benefits
It would perhaps be interesting to many to know what other top airlines with decent modern fleets are offering better stable and readily available packages at your current level working in what is generally deemed to be a civilised and safe environment.
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Between the HK Government restrictions at outports (yes, we’re still prisoners and the HK government loves having this power) and Swire / Cathay’s approach, hellbent on destroying the pilot body both professionally and personally, unless you want to spend the rest of your life in misery and have a company and an over zealous government control every aspect of your life then by all means apply!
Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
You militant guys certainly have thin skins and seemingly need to resort to abusive personal attacks on those who express reasoned but different views !
For the record I have several friends who for many years enjoyed packages recently (last say 5/7 years) of upwards of HK$4 million including benefits
It would perhaps be interesting to many to know what other top airlines with decent modern fleets are offering better stable and readily available packages at your current level working in what is generally deemed to be a civilised and safe environment.
For the record I have several friends who for many years enjoyed packages recently (last say 5/7 years) of upwards of HK$4 million including benefits
It would perhaps be interesting to many to know what other top airlines with decent modern fleets are offering better stable and readily available packages at your current level working in what is generally deemed to be a civilised and safe environment.
in what is generally deemed to be a civilised and safe environment.
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I don't believe so Menelaus. Your justification for this rather empty remark is what may I ask ?
BuzzBox I don't for a moment disagree that Cathay only offered very enticing expat packages in order to attract needed pilots. It is what what expanding businesses do and to a degree this happing again now.
It rather astounds me that many of you here cannot seem to grasp that Cathay is a business not a government department and as such has a first obligation to share holders to do what is needed to survive in the very difficult prevailing circumstances.
No amount of whining and foot stamping here is going to change that and as any impartial observer would be bound to conclude Cathay is done a much better job of looking after is employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going than most .
Of course its not easy or 'fair' but then it never was.
BuzzBox I don't for a moment disagree that Cathay only offered very enticing expat packages in order to attract needed pilots. It is what what expanding businesses do and to a degree this happing again now.
It rather astounds me that many of you here cannot seem to grasp that Cathay is a business not a government department and as such has a first obligation to share holders to do what is needed to survive in the very difficult prevailing circumstances.
No amount of whining and foot stamping here is going to change that and as any impartial observer would be bound to conclude Cathay is done a much better job of looking after is employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going than most .
Of course its not easy or 'fair' but then it never was.
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
I don't believe so Menelaus. Your justification for this rather empty remark is what may I ask ?
BuzzBox I don't for a moment disagree that Cathay only offered very enticing expat packages in order to attract needed pilots. It is what what expanding businesses do and to a degree this happing again now.
It rather astounds me that many of you here cannot seem to grasp that Cathay is a business not a government department and as such has a first obligation to share holders to do what is needed to survive in the very difficult prevailing circumstances.
No amount of whining and foot stamping here is going to change that and as any impartial observer would be bound to conclude Cathay is done a much better job of looking after is employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going than most .
Of course its not easy or 'fair' but then it never was.
BuzzBox I don't for a moment disagree that Cathay only offered very enticing expat packages in order to attract needed pilots. It is what what expanding businesses do and to a degree this happing again now.
It rather astounds me that many of you here cannot seem to grasp that Cathay is a business not a government department and as such has a first obligation to share holders to do what is needed to survive in the very difficult prevailing circumstances.
No amount of whining and foot stamping here is going to change that and as any impartial observer would be bound to conclude Cathay is done a much better job of looking after is employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going than most .
Of course its not easy or 'fair' but then it never was.
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
MM. Shouting irrelevant nonsense from the distant sidelines as usual.....too hot for the lawn bowling I suppose !
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Papa123 I understand your argument well. Few are older than me and I suggest few have worked harder to make a decent living in Hong Kong.
Judging from your joining date I suspect that you are a young fellow yet to learn that the the world does not owe you a living and making a living in these difficult times actually hard work for less reward than most of us have come to expect. As I presume that you are no way indentured to the airline but do actually work for Cathay I suggest that you get on with things or look for better pastures although these you will agree, I am sure are very difficult to find at the present time.
Judging from your joining date I suspect that you are a young fellow yet to learn that the the world does not owe you a living and making a living in these difficult times actually hard work for less reward than most of us have come to expect. As I presume that you are no way indentured to the airline but do actually work for Cathay I suggest that you get on with things or look for better pastures although these you will agree, I am sure are very difficult to find at the present time.
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Papa123 Not wishing to mislead I should make the point above that I am no longer formally working for anyone having reached the vast age where I am no longer considered by some to be competent. But I am still working and they are of course all wrong !
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[QUOTE=veryoldchinahand;11273733.....to conclude Cathay is done a much better job of looking after is employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going than most .
[/QUOTE]
You mean like Cathay Dragon?
They certainly did a good job looking after "is" employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going - indeed better than most!
No other airline could have done it in that way, that's for sure.
[/QUOTE]
You mean like Cathay Dragon?
They certainly did a good job looking after "is" employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going - indeed better than most!
No other airline could have done it in that way, that's for sure.
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
Papa123 I understand your argument well. Few are older than me and I suggest few have worked harder to make a decent living in Hong Kong.
Judging from your joining date I suspect that you are a young fellow yet to learn that the the world does not owe you a living and making a living in these difficult times actually hard work for less reward than most of us have come to expect. As I presume that you are no way indentured to the airline but do actually work for Cathay I suggest that you get on with things or look for better pastures although these you will agree, I am sure are very difficult to find at the present time.
Judging from your joining date I suspect that you are a young fellow yet to learn that the the world does not owe you a living and making a living in these difficult times actually hard work for less reward than most of us have come to expect. As I presume that you are no way indentured to the airline but do actually work for Cathay I suggest that you get on with things or look for better pastures although these you will agree, I am sure are very difficult to find at the present time.
Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
I don't for a moment disagree that Cathay only offered very enticing expat packages in order to attract needed pilots. It is what what expanding businesses do and to a degree this happing again now.
[QUOTE=veryoldchinahand;11273733]I don't believe so Menelaus. Your justification for this rather empty remark is what may I ask ?UNQUOTE]
Well let’s see shall we ?
A transformation ( in very short order) from a society where free speech was the norm, and our press and civil liberties were the envy of many in Asia, to one where a new security and sedition law means that one can be seized in the night, and shipped over the border for a touch of rough justice, by our Communist overlords. Just for espousing the “wrong” view.
That some of this was accelerated by the riots (and I’m still not fully convinced that much of it was not fomented by our friends over the border to force the issue) is undeniable. That said, the very fact that organized, peaceful demonstrations and marches ( once a hallmark of HK ) have been banned forthwith and forever is yet another sign of heavy handedness, and the destruction of all civil liberties.
Disbandment and effective neutering of all trade Union movements and associations ( again I’d be the first to admit that they were hardly the NUM) but some, such as the MTR Union, offered decent protections.
A farce of an election ( with one sole candidate, remind you of anywhere nearby ? ) for CE. Said candidate a rabid supporter of Beijing and their methods. So an ideal shoe in for for a 4th tier city.
Rapid haemorrhaging of talent.
A society where it is considered the norm to lock up its citizens, including babies and children, in quasi concentration camps in an half arsed attempt to achieve a zero covid policy whilst the rest of the World moves on.
A government that considers it acceptable to allow its Health Dept to mandate effective solitary confinement for its pilot work force, having spent 15 hours in an aluminium/ composite tube, then require them to wear tracking bracelets as though they’re rapists or paedophiles on early release.
And to add insult to injury subject them
to a draconian testing regime for days after. And rinse and repeat. That quite so many individuals have put up with this for quite so long beggars belief and says a fair bit about Stockholm syndrome.
If all the above ( and there are of course more ) are not the very epitomy of life under a CCCP dictatorship, I don’t know what is.
Well let’s see shall we ?
A transformation ( in very short order) from a society where free speech was the norm, and our press and civil liberties were the envy of many in Asia, to one where a new security and sedition law means that one can be seized in the night, and shipped over the border for a touch of rough justice, by our Communist overlords. Just for espousing the “wrong” view.
That some of this was accelerated by the riots (and I’m still not fully convinced that much of it was not fomented by our friends over the border to force the issue) is undeniable. That said, the very fact that organized, peaceful demonstrations and marches ( once a hallmark of HK ) have been banned forthwith and forever is yet another sign of heavy handedness, and the destruction of all civil liberties.
Disbandment and effective neutering of all trade Union movements and associations ( again I’d be the first to admit that they were hardly the NUM) but some, such as the MTR Union, offered decent protections.
A farce of an election ( with one sole candidate, remind you of anywhere nearby ? ) for CE. Said candidate a rabid supporter of Beijing and their methods. So an ideal shoe in for for a 4th tier city.
Rapid haemorrhaging of talent.
A society where it is considered the norm to lock up its citizens, including babies and children, in quasi concentration camps in an half arsed attempt to achieve a zero covid policy whilst the rest of the World moves on.
A government that considers it acceptable to allow its Health Dept to mandate effective solitary confinement for its pilot work force, having spent 15 hours in an aluminium/ composite tube, then require them to wear tracking bracelets as though they’re rapists or paedophiles on early release.
And to add insult to injury subject them
to a draconian testing regime for days after. And rinse and repeat. That quite so many individuals have put up with this for quite so long beggars belief and says a fair bit about Stockholm syndrome.
If all the above ( and there are of course more ) are not the very epitomy of life under a CCCP dictatorship, I don’t know what is.
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Originally Posted by Stone Temple Pilot
You mean like Cathay Dragon?
They certainly did a good job looking after "is" employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going - indeed better than most!
No other airline could have done it in that way, that's for sure.
They certainly did a good job looking after "is" employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going - indeed better than most!
No other airline could have done it in that way, that's for sure.
The rest of us were thrown out with the trash.
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Originally Posted by veryoldchinahand
I don't believe so Menelaus. Your justification for this rather empty remark is what may I ask ?
BuzzBox I don't for a moment disagree that Cathay only offered very enticing expat packages in order to attract needed pilots. It is what what expanding businesses do and to a degree this happing again now.
It rather astounds me that many of you here cannot seem to grasp that Cathay is a business not a government department and as such has a first obligation to share holders to do what is needed to survive in the very difficult prevailing circumstances.
No amount of whining and foot stamping here is going to change that and as any impartial observer would be bound to conclude Cathay is done a much better job of looking after is employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going than most .
Of course its not easy or 'fair' but then it never was.
BuzzBox I don't for a moment disagree that Cathay only offered very enticing expat packages in order to attract needed pilots. It is what what expanding businesses do and to a degree this happing again now.
It rather astounds me that many of you here cannot seem to grasp that Cathay is a business not a government department and as such has a first obligation to share holders to do what is needed to survive in the very difficult prevailing circumstances.
No amount of whining and foot stamping here is going to change that and as any impartial observer would be bound to conclude Cathay is done a much better job of looking after is employees, preserving jobs and keeping the airline going than most .
Of course its not easy or 'fair' but then it never was.
What you have witnessed VOCH, is a smash and grab, it is a strategy put in place by some senior leaders and it appears to be failing. Will management now need to cover their short?
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The value of every company is based largely on its assets. Assets which make profit, for the owners who own stock in that company. Less of those assets or worse shape of those assets result in less profit. The value of the company is what drives the stock price. The shareholders take direct benefit from that above all others, including the employees, which can be labeled as "cost units" or "profit units" depending on the competence of management.
Unhappy, un-taken care of, demoralized, angry, stressed, bankrupt pilots in this case are much less efficient and much less reliable or caring as before. Even that delapitated , demoralized, inefficient work force is declining at an uncomfortable rate without any success of replacing them despite having announced and started a big recruitment drive almost a year ago.
Without this asset which has to be there to operate the other very expensive assets (fleet of aircraft) that asset set also languishes in utter inefficiency. All other assets will be in the same boat, they are as we speak.
Tell me how happy the "shareholders" of this pennystock taco stand are when one of the assets which is impossible to operate the airline without (it's most expensive to attract, train & replace people) are in such terrible shape and such out of control dwindling numbers?
Sure ots all about the owners, called sharehilders. But the stock price is all about the company's value. Value is all about the assets which are necessary to produce profit. In case of an airline, to fly airplanes, enough to be able to maintain market share and perhaps expand market share where profit making opportunities are recognized.
As with any business... fukk your people and you've fukked your profit (shareholders).
Cathay's plan was to be back at 60% operation by September, then 50% by December. Both shut down by manpower planning due to not enough pilots. Can't retrain fast enough to replace pilots on flying fleets fron the non-flying fleet either. As soon as they become current, they leave for another job.
How are you doing shareholders? Enjoying the ride downhill? Enjoy it while it lasts...
Unhappy, un-taken care of, demoralized, angry, stressed, bankrupt pilots in this case are much less efficient and much less reliable or caring as before. Even that delapitated , demoralized, inefficient work force is declining at an uncomfortable rate without any success of replacing them despite having announced and started a big recruitment drive almost a year ago.
Without this asset which has to be there to operate the other very expensive assets (fleet of aircraft) that asset set also languishes in utter inefficiency. All other assets will be in the same boat, they are as we speak.
Tell me how happy the "shareholders" of this pennystock taco stand are when one of the assets which is impossible to operate the airline without (it's most expensive to attract, train & replace people) are in such terrible shape and such out of control dwindling numbers?
Sure ots all about the owners, called sharehilders. But the stock price is all about the company's value. Value is all about the assets which are necessary to produce profit. In case of an airline, to fly airplanes, enough to be able to maintain market share and perhaps expand market share where profit making opportunities are recognized.
As with any business... fukk your people and you've fukked your profit (shareholders).
Cathay's plan was to be back at 60% operation by September, then 50% by December. Both shut down by manpower planning due to not enough pilots. Can't retrain fast enough to replace pilots on flying fleets fron the non-flying fleet either. As soon as they become current, they leave for another job.
How are you doing shareholders? Enjoying the ride downhill? Enjoy it while it lasts...
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Average 777 pilot isn't flying at all.
Average Airbus pilot is doing 45 hours.
Only the 747 guys are flying reasonable hours.
No 747's parked.
Hkg isn't really opening any time soo. Thus cx is a cargo airline for the foreseeable future.
So - There's no shortage of pilots.
There's 2500 guys on the seniority list.
Costs to hire and train new pilots as we slowly open up over the next two or more years will be a billion dollars plus - however they've saved double that on cos18 and everyone that quit over the past two years...
I fail to see the problem...
Average Airbus pilot is doing 45 hours.
Only the 747 guys are flying reasonable hours.
No 747's parked.
Hkg isn't really opening any time soo. Thus cx is a cargo airline for the foreseeable future.
So - There's no shortage of pilots.
There's 2500 guys on the seniority list.
Costs to hire and train new pilots as we slowly open up over the next two or more years will be a billion dollars plus - however they've saved double that on cos18 and everyone that quit over the past two years...
I fail to see the problem...
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Originally Posted by missingblade
Average 777 pilot isn't flying at all.
Average Airbus pilot is doing 45 hours.
Only the 747 guys are flying reasonable hours.
No 747's parked.
Hkg isn't really opening any time soo. Thus cx is a cargo airline for the foreseeable future.
So - There's no shortage of pilots.
There's 2500 guys on the seniority list.
Costs to hire and train new pilots as we slowly open up over the next two or more years will be a billion dollars plus - however they've saved double that on cos18 and everyone that quit over the past two years...
I fail to see the problem...
Average Airbus pilot is doing 45 hours.
Only the 747 guys are flying reasonable hours.
No 747's parked.
Hkg isn't really opening any time soo. Thus cx is a cargo airline for the foreseeable future.
So - There's no shortage of pilots.
There's 2500 guys on the seniority list.
Costs to hire and train new pilots as we slowly open up over the next two or more years will be a billion dollars plus - however they've saved double that on cos18 and everyone that quit over the past two years...
I fail to see the problem...
sycophant you.
