Medals Found on Nottinghamshire Golf Course

[OJ 72]

WWII Medals Found on Nottinghamshire Golf Course

An interesting story and an interesting collection. I'm sure that some of our 'resident experts' may be able to shed some light on this?

[NutLoose]

They're the minatures, the impressions in the lid cushion show at one point the full size medals were in the box, one does wonder if they were stolen but not reported or missed and the minatures ditched as not having any real value.

I do hope they are reunited with the family and the full size items.

[Davef68]

Originally Posted by NutLoose

They're the minatures, the impressions in the lid cushion show at one point the full size medals were in the box, one does wonder if they were stolen but not reported or missed and the minatures ditched as not having any real value.

I do hope they are reunited with the family and the full size items.

The picture just doesn't show the medals themselves? The caption says 'There were also duplicates of the medals and a name in the box'.

There is a pic that isn't displayed on the BBC site showing the full medals


This report indicates that they think there is another, more valuable medal in the set, so perhaps they were stolen and then these discarded

https://www.nottinghampost.com/news/...ar-two-5897532

[NutLoose]

Weird
The top link just gave me this picture. Hence my comment.

[Lynxman]

There are no missing medals. In addition to the DSC there are seven medals listed on the Campaign Stars, Clasps and Medals certificate, a photo of which appears on a Facebook post from the current owner. Two pairs of stars are combined by the use of clasps, the Atlantic Star has a France and Germany clasp and the Pacific Star has a Burma clasp, so five physical medals plus the DSC is six.

[Mogwi]

My guess would be Fleet Air Arm. Mogwi senior had Atlantic Star (from North Atlantic convoy escort carriers) with France and Germany clasp from low-level fighter sweeps over France in Seafires. Although, interestingly, he also had a Burma Star with Pacific clasp from his time in Indefatigable in the Far East.

Tankertrashnav would be the man to ask.

Mog

[212man]

"My friend found the box a few years ago under a bush on the golf course when he went looking for a ball," Ms Farnsworth said.

I wonder how long ago "a few years" is?

[Union Jack]

Originally Posted by Mogwi

My guess would be Fleet Air Arm. Mogwi senior had Atlantic Star (from North Atlantic convoy escort carriers) with France and Germany clasp from low-level fighter sweeps over France in Seafires. Although, interestingly, he also had a Burma Star with Pacific clasp from his time in Indefatigable in the Far East.

Tankertrashnav would be the man to ask.

Mog

I rather like both of Mog's suggestions and, having only had time for a brief look at some alphabetical editions of the Navy List for the last two years of WWII, and at the London Gazette, I haven't come across an A J Scott other than a Schoolmaster with no DSC listed, although that of course could have come later. Recalling that none of the awards would be named, and that we don't of course know for certain whether the Arthur James Scott referred to was definitely the recipient of the awards, or that perhaps they simply passed through his hands, only adds to the mystery.

TTN may indeed be able to help, although I'm not sure that he has been on for a while.

Jack

[The Oberon]

There are some good "delvers" over on ARRSE, so I have shamelessly nicked the photos and asked the question over there.

[NutLoose]

This is one of the things I really enjoy about this forum, the fact that people recognise these for what they are and are willing to put in the time and research to hopefully return them to the family that they belonged too, I must admit to even having a look-see myself, so kudos to you all and keep up the good work.

[Davef68]

Originally Posted by Union Jack

I rather like both of Mog's suggestions and, having only had time for a brief look at some alphabetical editions of the Navy List for the last two years of WWII, and at the London Gazette, I haven't come across an A J Scott other than a Schoolmaster with no DSC listed, although that of course could have come later.

The DSC was a naval award, but could be issued to Army or RAF personnel serving at sea. If it's a post-1940 award it should have the year engraved on the reverse

I had a look at the Gazette too (although their searching appears to be poorer than last time I looked there) - i did find an Arthur James Scott, but he was an RAF officer, and it was just in the appointments listing.

A search of the CWGC site found two casualties of Surname Scott with the DSC, but one was killed too early in the War to receive the France/Germany clasp. The other was an RNVR pilot who was killed in 1944, but his DSC was sold at auction in 2020, and he would have been entitled to the Africa Star

https://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archiv...lot_uid=370204

I suspect 'our' A J Scott must be a relative of the recipient of the illustrated medals (My suspicion would be the person who had the medals mounted and put in the presentation case) so the surname may not be that of the recipient

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

The UK national archives search portal has one entry that may be of use:

Reference: BT 395/1/86768
Description: Medal listing of Scott, Arthur James
Discharge number: R280391
Date of Birth: 26 February 1924

The (currently) free downloadable PDF is a single page, obviously from a bigger list, which includes this Arthur James Scott:




The PDF is avaialable here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ils/r/D4364013

I don't know the precise meanings of the various abbreviations, but there appears to be evidence of Atlantic ('AT') and Pacific ('PA') medals there. The full PDF does not explain what the various columns represent, but I see what looks like a date ('Feb 47') and what seems to be 'NZ' under the number '60104'. Is this a service number? Was this Arthur J. Scott a New Zealander, or perhaps emigrated to New Zealand after discharge?

And here is a completely different theory ......
The linked BBC article includes this: "... one expert believed Arthur James Scott was from Brigg in Lincolnshire." Looking at the photo accompanying the article, I initially wondered if his surname is Brigg, not Scott? So, might we be looking for Arthur J. S. Brigg? Just a thought.

[MPN11]

Agree on your decode for the columns ... L>R
39-45 Star, Atlantic, Africa, Pacific, Burma, France & Germany, War Medal. ...and italy in the line below. Then CL for Clasps.

BUT ... that listing you showed doesn't reflect the various clasps (F&G and Burma in this case)

[Stuart Sutcliffe]

Originally Posted by MPN11

Agree on your decode for the columns ... L>R
39-45 Star, Atlantic, Africa, Pacific, Burma, France & Germany, War Medal. ...and italy in the line below. Then CL for Clasps.

Thanks very much for filling in that detail - very useful!

So does the medal set illustrated in the photos match all of that? I accept the DSC does not appear to be listed, but I suppose it could have been awarded after discharge?

I am now a little more convinced there is likely to be a connection with New Zealand in the National Archive record illustrated in my previous posting above. The handwritten text across the columns appears to be "CRS 101/109 to Dominions Office", followed by the "Feb 47" and "NZ".

There once was a Secretary of State for Dominion Affairs, and in (July?) 1947 the job was combined with the Secretary of State for India, to become the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations. This was the forerunner of today's UK Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs.

The office of Dominion Affairs oversaw relations with the Dominions, which included countries like Australia, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa and Southern Rhodesia. So, again, this particular Arthur J Scott likely had a connection to New Zealand.

Of course, whether the Arthur J. Scott connected to the medals in the box is the same Arthur J. Scott in the National Archives document remains to be discovered. I just hope the details on the document (medals, Discharge number, birth date, likely connection to NZ) can help any researchers and experts here to find out!

[MPN11]

Originally Posted by MPN11

Then CL for Clasps.

BUT ... that listing you showed doesn't reflect the various clasps (F&G and Burma in this case)

In the putative Kiwi’s case, I would have expected to see circled the CL under FR and BU to denote the award of those clasps (which are displayed on the medal rack).

BTW, I suspect the Service number is in the first column, under the name and with DoB. That would be a normal way of identifying an individual. The last column may just be an internal admin reference number.

* Note the correlation between DoB and the magnitude of the Service number … the 1917 guys are in the same group of numbers, the ‘Kiwi’ has a much higher Svc No.

[MrBernoulli]

Originally Posted by MPN11

In the putative Kiwi’s case, I would have expected to see circled the CL under FR and BU to denote the award of those clasps (which are displayed on the medal rack).

BTW, I suspect the Service number is in the first column, under the name and with DoB. That would be a normal way of identifying an individual. The last column may just be an internal admin reference number.

* Note the correlation between DoB and the magnitude of the Service number … the 1917 guys are in the same group of numbers, the ‘Kiwi’ has a much higher Svc No.

Isn't if just possible that the clasps, and DSC, may have actually been awarded sometime after this Discharge list was compiled? Once the naval or other departments were able to catch up with the post-war admin and paperwork?

The UK National Archives reference (found in the link in Stuart Sutcliffe's post) clearly states it is a "Discharge number: R280391". It would be nice to know what the "60104" number really is. If any historians here have familiarity and experience of this sort of document it would be good to hear about it.

Nevertheless, as already mentioned, care and further research is required before fully assuming that the recovered medals and Discharge list actually refer to the same individual.

[mabmac]

Two small points. Firstly, if the DSC was awarded post 1940, the year of issue should be engraved on the reverse of the lower arm of the cross. This might help narrow down the search. Secondly the surname could be "Arthur", as it was common to write the surname first.

[sycamore]

Is it really `Brigg`,as it looks a little `flowery`,as there is a place called Drigg in Cumbria...?
Alternatively is that a `hyphen `after Scott,to denote Scott-Brigg/Drigg...?

[NutLoose]

If you look at it, it says

Arthur . James Scott . Brigg.

Note the full stops

[NutLoose]

Could that be a note to an Arthur from a Brigg giving him the name?