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Entitlement to wear RAF 'wings'

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Entitlement to wear RAF 'wings'

Old 13th Nov 2023, 16:01
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Entitlement to wear RAF 'wings'

Watching the Remembrance Sunday parade yesterday, on TV, there was reference to an RAFA Ambassador. I was curious/nosey, so found their website and had a scroll through their list of ambassadors and came across Vic Norman: https://rafa.org.uk/about/ambassadors/#norman He is wearing a pair of wings (please don't hijack the thread with discussions about wings/brevets/badges etc!) and I was curious how he is able to wear them because, by all accounts, I cannot see any reference to him having been an RAF pilot.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 16:28
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Originally Posted by 212man
Watching the Remembrance Sunday parade yesterday, on TV, there was reference to an RAFA Ambassador. I was curious/nosey, so found their website and had a scroll through their list of ambassadors and came across Vic Norman: https://rafa.org.uk/about/ambassadors/#norman He is wearing a pair of wings (please don't hijack the thread with discussions about wings/brevets/badges etc!) and I was curious how he is able to wear them because, by all accounts, I cannot see any reference to him having been an RAF pilot.
The idea of "honorary wings" [if such they are] is not entirely novel: a couple of Kings and Winston Churchill sported RAF Flying Badges.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 17:09
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I would say this honorary lady is a pilot but does not wear wings on her uniform







[QUOTE]AP 1358, CHAP 7
Preliminary – Flying. Eagle of drab silk embroidery – on dark blue melton cloth.
(Pilot - QR 728)

0713. When entitled to wear one of the flying badges described at Para 0713, it is to be worn on the left breast of the No 1, 1A, 6 uniform jacket
immediately and centrally above the top line of conventional breast pockets (when fitted) and in a corresponding position on the heavy jersey,
women's dresses. They are not worn on No 3 Dress (CS 95, etc). When medal ribbons are worn, flying badges are to be placed directly above the
top row of medal ribbons, with a space of ľ" (6.5 mm) between the lowest part of the badge and the upper edge of ribbon(s).
a. A flying badge, being a qualification badge, is not to be regarded as either a decoration or the equivalent of a regimental badge.
Service personnel are not to wear any of the badges listed above and in QRs unless authority for them to do so has been granted in
accordance with the regulations prescribed from time to time by the Defence Council.
b. An officer, on ceasing to be employed on flying duties, and an airman on being remustered to a ground trade, unless ordered
otherwise, may elect to wear any of the badges for which he has been previously qualified./QUOTE]

https://rmhistorical.com/files/conte...egulations.pdf


A UK military flying badge is awarded to Aircrew by a single-Service Approving
Officer once the appropriate standard on an approved training course has been met,
iaw Queen’s Regulations
https://assets.publishing.service.go...01_Issue_7.pdf

Last edited by NutLoose; 13th Nov 2023 at 17:48.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 17:57
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Is that Carol Vordeman? In what way is she a pilot? Not a QSP. Iím not sure your quotations have done other than strengthen my question about why Vic is wearing wings.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 18:19
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As stated above, it’s really very simple, successfully complete the appropriate course, have the stamp or certificate in your logbook and you’re good to go.

If you read Air Cdr John Clements autobiography “Electronic Airborne Goldfish”, he almost certainly deserved a flying badge but never qualified for its award.

YS

Last edited by Yellow Sun; 13th Nov 2023 at 21:18.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 18:27
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In what way is she a pilot?
She has a licence and her own aircraft registered N242CV
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 18:36
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I take it this is the gentleman in question:

https://www.aerosuperbatics.com/about-us/founder/
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 18:48
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Impressive CV but no sign of any entitlement to the flying badge as far as I can see.
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 18:50
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Originally Posted by ETOPS
She has a licence and her own aircraft registered N242CV
Correct, a civilian pilot as is the person mentioned in post one. Except she does not wear any wings and I don’t think he should be either, unless he has been given specific permission, though the MOD has been diluting down their stature by flogging them off for use by various clothing brands
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 20:56
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Honarary group captain, so who. made that promotion and why ?
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Old 13th Nov 2023, 21:30
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The RAF did, she is the Honorary ambassador for the RAF Cadets, and does an excellent job of it.

see

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...-flying-award/
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 07:40
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Originally Posted by Yellow Sun
As stated above, itís really very simple, successfully complete the appropriate course, have the stamp or certificate in your logbook and youíre good to go.
YS
Not forgetting that the holder subsequently needs to qualify as combat ready in order to ratify the award. If not, the entitlement is lost.
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 12:35
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Someone should "have a word" with Mr Norman, and make an appointment with the Station Tailor. It seems clear that he is not entitled; and his wearing of the Flying Badge (or whatever you want to call it) may be seen as offensive by many.

Wearing of "Wings" is jealously guarded; I see the Prince of Wales wears RAF Wings on his Army uniform(s) - correctly - and his baby brother Harry - also correctly - wears/wore his Army wings on RAF uniform.

[Edited to add:]. Of course I apologise if I've missed something and he is entitled.......
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 15:08
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I have no problem with "Honorary Air Commode" (not a misspelling), but "honorary pilot"?
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 15:22
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This chap never soloed but no one was brave enough to tell him he couldn't wear the wings.

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Old 14th Nov 2023, 15:26
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Teetering, I donít think thereís any question. He is a pilot (I knew) but not a QSP.
https://pilotweb.aero/flying/pilot-p...lking-8413820/


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Old 14th Nov 2023, 15:57
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Originally Posted by ShyTorque
Not forgetting that the holder subsequently needs to qualify as combat ready in order to ratify the award. If not, the entitlement is lost.
I rather doubt that.
"Wings" are awarded for the successful completion of the designated military flying course. Once awarded they cannot be removed, and certainly not for failure to qualify as "combat ready" (which, after all, would be hard for a creamie or transport pilot). One assumes you meant "operational", but even so - have wings keep wings.
No one took my wings away when I was chopped on (RN) AFT - which is the course before OFT. Nor could they.
And the CAA recognised them as qualification for a CPL to boot. Without them there would have been little or no credit towards a CPL at all.

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Old 14th Nov 2023, 16:41
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I actually donít care either way, but it was always my understanding that wings were awarded for a particular flying course but to ratify them you had to become operational on a frontline type (FJ / RW / AT / creamie etc.). Creamie because he is qualified as a QFI on type (operational).

For example. If Bloggs was awarded a Flying Badge but then was chopped on an OCU and re-branched to a ground trade he wouldnít wear wings? Because he is not aircrew? 🤷🏼‍♂️
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 16:42
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Originally Posted by meleagertoo
I rather doubt that.
"Wings" are awarded for the successful completion of the designated military flying course. Once awarded they cannot be removed, and certainly not for failure to qualify as "combat ready" (which, after all, would be hard for a creamie or transport pilot). One assumes you meant "operational", but even so - have wings keep wings.
No one took my wings away when I was chopped on (RN) AFT - which is the course before OFT. Nor could they.
And the CAA recognised them as qualification for a CPL to boot. Without them there would have been little or no credit towards a CPL at all.
There was a pilot chopped from a FJ OCU some years ago who had his wings taken off him. Some time later he passed the same OCU as a nav and had a pretty successful career.
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Old 14th Nov 2023, 16:57
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If I recall correctly, the rules for confirmation of 'Wings' changed about 20 years ago when the 'combat ready' (or equivalent) criteria were adopted?

Didn't it used to be something like '6 months on first squadron' ?
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