The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions The place for students, instructors and charter guys in Oz, NZ and the rest of Oceania.

Airservices Class E changes

Old 20th Jan 2021, 21:54
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Geostationary Orbit
Posts: 275
Airservices Class E changes

Anyone seen this?
https://engage.airservicesaustralia....s-e-east-coast

thunderbird five is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 00:45
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,102
AVSEF, where are you?

Class E wouldn't be so bad if Airservices actually provided some approach controlling; it doesn't, of course (as we have seen at Coffs) and all this will mean will be ground and airborne delays waiting for the other IFR to clear the area, all the while fighting on the CTAF (eg Sunshine Coast A320).

The only good part of this is that VFR will require a transponder unless they are in the weeds. In fact, if it's deemed that IFR must have E to improve safety, then it's high time that ALL aircraft, regardless of airspace type, mixing it with RPT have a transponder for TCAS.
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 02:45
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Up The 116E, Stbd Turn at 32S...:-)
Age: 79
Posts: 2,891
Devil

I feel for ya Cap'n.
Who da thunk it...TCAS...the 'ULTIMATE' FIS in Ya 'Alphabet' soup........(Maybe.....)
Cheers
Ex FSO GRIFFO is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 04:57
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: moon
Posts: 0
So does this mean all VFR aircraft in the Eastern States will require a transponder and radio if not already fitted? At least if they wish to fly above 1500 AGL.

Why not add to the fun by requiring a special Class E endorsement?
Sunfish is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 05:29
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,903
Originally Posted by Sunfish View Post
So does this mean all VFR aircraft in the Eastern States will require a transponder and radio if not already fitted? At least if they wish to fly above 1500 AGL.
Yes, of course it will, in the affected areas. The devil in the detail will be whether it has to be ADSB or not.

The time is rapidly approaching for everyone to have ADSB. Is that a bad thing? Cost aside, probably not.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 06:45
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Sydney
Posts: 97
Not being able to operate clear of cloud beneath 3000qnh in class e would be the biggest barrier for me right now. I've used that clear of cloud minima to get out of some murky situations...
Styx75 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 13:50
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 21
I think 1500ft is too low. 3000ft would be more preferable so that VFR aircrafts could follow recommended flying levels when flying easterly at 1500ft and westerly at 2500ft.

​​​​
Bosi72 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 21:02
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,903
Originally Posted by Bosi72 View Post
I think 1500ft is too low. 3000ft would be more preferable so that VFR aircrafts could follow recommended flying levels when flying easterly at 1500ft and westerly at 2500ft.

​​​​
They will still be able to do that... or do you mean that those wishing to not enter Class E will still be able to fly at 2,500ft under it and remain hemispherically correct?
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 21st Jan 2021, 22:14
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 21
Originally Posted by Squawk7700 View Post
t... or do you mean that those wishing to not enter Class E will still be able to fly at 2,500ft under it and remain hemispherically correct?
Yes, and basically to allow separation for those wishing to fly in Class G.
The photo from airservices pdf brochure is not fair showing 1500ft like 1/3 of the total airspace..
Bosi72 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 02:39
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,903
The process is far from over, so there is hope. Industry consultation is happening at the moment, eg RAAus and others.
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 03:26
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Australia
Posts: 4,941
Remember it was Dick Smith, when he was Chairman of CASA, who negotiated an agreement with the general aviation organisations (including AOPA) to mandate transponders in Class E. This was accepted by the GA organisations because it would give them the freedom to fly over Class D airports in Class E without a clearance.

The transponder mandate was introduced with Class E over D, but when Airservices reversed the Class E over D and replaced it with Class C, they left in the transponder mandate. It was an irreversible path towards more costs and more restrictions.

Tootle pip!!

LeadSled is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 03:35
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,370
Rumours of his PPRuNe demise were exaggerated. Is this a temporary visit?
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 03:49
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: YLIL
Posts: 245
Is it just me, or do others find it strange that this is expressed as AGL and not AMSL? How will that work in practice?
triton140 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 04:04
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,370
Easy: You just put in DAH and on charts: E LL 1500 AGL. What could possibly go wrong?
Lead Balloon is online now  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 04:25
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,903
Originally Posted by LeadSled View Post
It was an irreversible path towards more costs and more restrictions.

Tootle pip!!
More costs, more restrictions and more SAFETY.

ADSB is a good thing, so donít suggest itís a burden at $900 per aircraft for private operators.

If bringing down class E to a lower level where ATC will better be able to see myself and other traffic, then Iím all for it, arenít you?

When I fly, I get excellent service in class E airspace, especially with ASDB-Out, as Iíll randomly get a call from ATC telling me about an impending near-death experience... how can that ever be a bad thing? !!!

Long gone will be the never ending calls..

ĒUnidentified aircraft 20 miles east of Temora at 7,500ft north east bound, do you copy, you are about to pass another unidentified aircraft at your 3 oíclock on climb from 7,200ft unverified, please acknowledge.Ē

Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 05:10
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Up The 116E, Stbd Turn at 32S...:-)
Age: 79
Posts: 2,891
Devil

HA HA HA....."Your Safety Will Be Enhanced And It WILL COST YOU LESS".....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(The devil made me do it....honestly......)


(Tks again Dick for ......)
Ex FSO GRIFFO is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 05:21
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 2,903
If everyone had ADSB we would all be able to see each other and not rely on a stretched ATC !
Squawk7700 is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 05:55
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Seat 0A
Posts: 8,102
Originally Posted by Squawk
If everyone had ADSB we would all be able to see each other and not rely on a stretched ATC !
I'm not aware of any "normal" Boeings and Airbii that have ADS-B IN.

If ATC are going to be stretched then ASA should put on more controllers. Oh ,wait...

Originally Posted by Griffo
(Tks again Dick for ......)
Still going, Griffo? Must have been a BIG one $$$$!!
Capn Bloggs is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 13:40
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Way north
Age: 44
Posts: 420
Originally Posted by Styx75 View Post
I've used that clear of cloud minima to get out of some murky situations...
You're not supposed to end up there in the first place.

(Says the guy ending up IMC due stupid decision making)
jmmoric is offline  
Old 22nd Jan 2021, 18:53
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Australia/India
Posts: 3,370
I woke with a start this morning, as a consequence of a funny smell.

Dick Smith is active again about airspace arrangements and infrastructure, as a consequence of the release of the Mooney report....

Airservices releases a proposal about more E airspace...

Sniff, sniff...

What is that I’m smelling? I’m sure I’ve smelt it before in similar circumstances...

That’s it: An early election!

(Senior Advisor: “Hey Jason, we need something to keep Dick Smith distracted and on side for a couple of months.” Jason: “Leave it with me. I have just the thing.”)
Lead Balloon is online now  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.