LAPL in Netherlands?

[PR0PWASH]

Looking at my second unprepared for move in 12 months, anyone have experience of Flying in Holland under a LAPL?, any difference compared to entitlements in the UK? (I know it should be the same, but I doubt it is)

[MrAverage]

In the short term, it's possible a UK LAPL may not be recognised................

[Edgington]

With a U.K. issued LAPL you cannot fly outside of U.K. airspace. If you upgrade to a U.K. PPL you could fly a G-reg in the Netherlands, there used to be a few around.

[PR0PWASH]

Aaargh, Brexit eh?, this is gonna cost me

[Jan Olieslagers]

Depending on where you are in the Netherlands, it might be worth talking to a Belgian training organisation - which will invariably be a flying club.The chaps in Brasschaat have a couple of LAPL-registered trainers, for example. Should be less expensive.

[Archer4]

Check www.easa.europa.eu/faq/121071. It isn't a complete answer to your question because it doesn't discuss G registered aircraft.

Also www.aopa.nl/index.php?page=1318&sid=1 (in Dutch). Aopa asked your specific question to the UK CAA. No answer mentioned yet. It does have an email address for questions.

edit:
This has your answer. info.caa.co.uk/uk-eu-transition/private-pilots/

Specific chapter with Q/A on LAPL.

Conclusion: No flying outside of UK airspace with a UK issued LAPL. Or inside UK airspace with a EU issued LAPL.

[golfbananajam]

Originally Posted by PR0PWASH

Aaargh, Brexit eh?, this is gonna cost me

Not sure this has anything to do with Brexit, I seem to recall you've never been able to use a LAPL outside UK airspace (but I may be wrong).

[S-Works]

Originally Posted by golfbananajam

Not sure this has anything to do with Brexit, I seem to recall you've never been able to use a LAPL outside UK airspace (but I may be wrong).

Incorrect. The LAPL was an EASA EU wide sub ICAO licence. The Uk has left EASA and thats why a UK issued LAPL is no longer valid.

I never really saw the point of the LAPL in the first place. We have only ever trained for 2 of them since its inception. It saves nothing in training and being sub ICAO is very restrictive. Instead of creating another licence it would have been better to have an appropriate medical level for the the ICAO PPL.....

[Edgington]

Originally Posted by Archer4

Conclusion: No flying outside of UK airspace with a UK issued LAPL. Or inside UK airspace with a EU issued LAPL.

You may fly inside U.K. airspace with a LAPL, doesn't matter which country issued it. The Air Navigation Order requires anyone pilots an aircraft to hold a licence valid under the EASA Aircrew Regulation, which any LAPL is. This is also why the General validation issued by the CAA for EASA Licence holders to fly G-Reg only states it's for flying G-Reg outside U.K. Airspace

[Jan Olieslagers]

The LAPL was an EASA EU wide sub ICAO licence.

Ah, that was not entirely clear to me, thanks for clarification. However, why the "was"? Bar Brexit, what has changed?

@T/S: on a very general note, powered recreational flying is not very well regarded in that "southernmost of scandinavian countries". There is a remarkably strong presence of Dutch pilots and even Dutch-registered planes in western Germany and in north-eastern Belgium - guess why...

[S-Works]

Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers

Ah, that was not entirely clear to me, thanks for clarification. However, why the "was"? Bar Brexit, what has changed?

@T/S: on a very general note, powered recreational flying is not very well regarded in that "southernmost of scandinavian countries". There is a remarkably strong presence of Dutch pilots and even Dutch-registered planes in western Germany and in north-eastern Belgium - guess why...

It was an EU wide initiative. The U.K. left the EU...

[Jan Olieslagers]

It IS an EU-wide initiative.

[Fl1ingfrog]

Following the creation of the EASA PPL (JAA before that) new elements were introduced and some of these were considered onerous. During the JAA period compliance was voluntary however and you could continue with the ICAO compliant UK PPL if you wished. EASA brought an end to this. To mitigate the effects of these changes the UK CAA created the sub ICAO UK NPPL. It was considered that the vast majority of UK private pilots didn't fly outside of the UK airspace, fly aircraft larger than two metric tonnes, rarely carried more than three passengers nor wished to fly in IMC.

Eventually EASA came to the same conclusion and the LAPL was created together with a specific medical for it. Nothing within the LAPL privileges and training is different, other than some minor detail, from the UK NPPL. There is therefore just one and only benefit to the LAPL, it gave privileges EU wide. Without EU wide benefits the LAPL is pointless to the UK because it added nothing above that of the UK NPPL.

It is outrageous that the EU are arbitrarily ceasing to recognize a licence of its own making and also bears its name, designed wholly to give privileges EU wide. It is to the credit of the UK that a two year grace period is granted which will allow bumps to be ironed out and allow time for licenses to be changed if the holder wishes. The EU has not reciprocated. The current Covid-19 cock ups and vaccination regime clearly demonstrates the dysfunction of the EU and its inability to act promptly and effectively other than to be pernicious.

The option now is for LAPL holders to obtain a NPPL with less demands on it and put the LAPL on the shelf, it is valid for life.

[S-Works]

Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers

It IS an EU-wide initiative.

Actually it WAS an EU wide initiative and NOW it is adopted EU wide. Thanks for for attempting to correct a native English speakers grammar though..... Past tense and present tense and all that.....

[Jan Olieslagers]

[[ linguistic side-spin ]]

Thanks for for attempting to correct a native English speakers grammar though

Apologies, sir, you must be one of the few Brits who still care. There are indeed plenty examples around of UK citizens messing up their writing, and not seeming to care. No need to look or search far. That said, if you insist that the LAPL was an EU initiative but I should not say that it is one now, what then is the LAPL now (in Europe)?

[S-Works]

Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers

[[ linguistic side-spin ]]

Apologies, sir, you must be one of the few Brits who still care. There are indeed plenty examples around of UK citizens messing up their writing, and not seeming to care. No need to look or search far. That said, if you insist that the LAPL was an EU initiative but I should not say that it is one now, what then is the LAPL now (in Europe)?

And that my friend is where you are falling down on the nuances of the English language. Context.... Go back and read the context.

[Jim59]

S-Works

I never really saw the point of the LAPL in the first place. We have only ever trained for 2 of them since its inception. It saves nothing in training and being sub ICAO is very restrictive. Instead of creating another licence it would have been better to have an appropriate medical level for the the ICAO PPL.....

I could not agree more. They saw sense for gliding about a year ago. There were two licences, the LAPL(S) and the Sailplane Pilots Licence (SPL) - the latter being ICAO compliant and equivalent to the PPL. Training was to the same syllabus, minor differences in privileges. Last year the LAPL(S) was discontinued and all LAPL(S) holders are now deemed to have an SPL. The minor differences in privileges remain - but they are now based on the type of medical certificate held. A Class 2 or higher medical gives the holder some privileges not available to a LAPL medical holder. Since the rules were changed prior to 31st December the UK now has only an SPL for glider pilots. (However, pilots can still fly unlicensed under BGA rules until this autumn when they will be discontinued in favour of the EASA based licensing system.)