Professional Pilot Training (includes ground studies) A forum for those on the steep path to that coveted professional licence. Whether studying for the written exams, training for the flight tests or building experience here's where you can hang out.

What happens to the plane

Old 6th Aug 2022, 16:26
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: singapore
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What happens to the plane

If only the rudder was used to steer without alierons?

An animation would certainly help.
tcasdescend is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2022, 17:01
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Still above ground
Posts: 84
Likes: 0
Received 6 Likes on 4 Posts
Fargo Boyle is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2022, 17:23
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,753
Received 2,736 Likes on 1,166 Posts
The secondary effect of yaw is roll, so if you turn with the rudder the advancing wing in the turn creates more lift than the other one. so it rolls... does make sense to you?
NutLoose is offline  
Old 6th Aug 2022, 17:57
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: GA, USA
Posts: 3,197
Likes: 0
Received 23 Likes on 10 Posts
Its an excercise that I do with all of my students.
Control the airplane with rudder only or rudder and trim.
B2N2 is online now  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 04:46
  #5 (permalink)  

Avoid imitations
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 413 Likes on 218 Posts
I have some very old books about aviation, one dates back to 1911.

In the very early days, apparently it was normal to fly turns using rudder only. Banked turns were considered to be “stunts”.
ShyTorque is online now  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 04:56
  #6 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: singapore
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Fargo Boyle
So it just turns 360 in the same spot?
tcasdescend is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 06:55
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,069
Received 66 Likes on 40 Posts
One of my instructors would demonstrate directional control by just opening both doors of the Cessna 152 in flight and hand extending them airbrake style. It seemed to work.
Less Hair is online now  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 07:58
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Near EGSS
Posts: 486
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Less Hair
One of my instructors would demonstrate directional control by just opening both doors of the Cessna 152 in flight and hand extending them airbrake style. It seemed to work.
Reminds me of the 'full opposite door' technique for spin recovery. Never tried it myself.

An aircraft on which I have many hours, does not show secondary roll effect of rudder. It just carries on a bit sideways. Demonstrated it a few times to the surprise of a few instructors. It is an aerobatic type with symmetrical wings but I have never managed to figure out why it is so.

ea200 is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 09:19
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Ziltoidia... indeed'd.
Posts: 484
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
What surprise me is the number of people who thought about, and then actually did, opening a door of an airplane in flight. I would never have had the guts...
iggy is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 11:53
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USA
Age: 60
Posts: 406
Received 31 Likes on 22 Posts
Never tried to do a full roll in a real airplane with rudder only, (other than doing snap rolls, but the whole “full opposite aileron” thing negates the experiment) but I can tell you that it works just fine on RC models with only rudder and elevator controls.
421dog is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 12:45
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Western Europe
Posts: 297
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Originally Posted by iggy
What surprise me is the number of people who thought about, and then actually did, opening a door of an airplane in flight. I would never have had the guts...
Fly a C152 or a Piper Arrow and you'll experience a lot of doors opening, planned or not!
Consol is offline  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 15:38
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: The Winchester
Posts: 6,548
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Originally Posted by tcasdescend
So it just turns 360 in the same spot?
No.....the aircraft continues to progress across the ground as it turns.. exactly what happens in roll will depend on the aircraft ( ea200s comment).

When I used to do basic instructing demo-ing this was part of the students second lesson, cunningly enough called "Effect of Controls"

It wasn't that unusual, certainly in the olden days, as 421dog mentions, to find some radio control models had no functioning ailerons or no ailerons at all..so you steered them around the sky using the rudder.

wiggy is online now  
Old 7th Aug 2022, 17:07
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Denmark
Age: 68
Posts: 401
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Some of Jurca's aircraft have negative yaw roll coupling - press right leg, and it rolls left because of very little dihedral.
sablatnic is online now  
Old 8th Aug 2022, 00:55
  #14 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: singapore
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wiggy
No.....the aircraft continues to progress across the ground as it turns.. exactly what happens in roll will depend on the aircraft ( ea200s comment).

When I used to do basic instructing demo-ing this was part of the students second lesson, cunningly enough called "Effect of Controls"

It wasn't that unusual, certainly in the olden days, as 421dog mentions, to find some radio control models had no functioning ailerons or no ailerons at all..so you steered them around the sky using the rudder.
That is funny. The textbook says rudder and alierons have to be pressed at the same time
tcasdescend is offline  
Old 8th Aug 2022, 02:18
  #15 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: singapore
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by wiggy
No.....the aircraft continues to progress across the ground as it turns.. exactly what happens in roll will depend on the aircraft ( ea200s comment).

When I used to do basic instructing demo-ing this was part of the students second lesson, cunningly enough called "Effect of Controls"

It wasn't that unusual, certainly in the olden days, as 421dog mentions, to find some radio control models had no functioning ailerons or no ailerons at all..so you steered them around the sky using the rudder.
IS it due to left turning effect?
tcasdescend is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.