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Southern Air 777 stall and recovery after takeoff, Nov 15th

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Southern Air 777 stall and recovery after takeoff, Nov 15th

Old 20th Nov 2020, 10:05
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Southern Air 777 stall and recovery after takeoff, Nov 15th


flightradar24

Departure out of JFK, audio reveals airspeed low warning and also the config warning (overspeed?) likely during recovery.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 10:57
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Avherald quotes about 200' height loss during the event; ADS-B (via FR24) suggests more like 750'.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 13:20
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Hand-flying?
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 13:38
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 14:05
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First Officer handling?
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 14:15
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Strange response. Many FO's handle manually better than CP's.

I was thinking that the a/c was not being flown using automatics. Employing automation relatively quickly is good practice in a busy TMA like that of JFK. It reduces the workload on the non-handling pilot. And at night, it removes the risk of somatogravic illusions and the like, which have caused accidents on jets not so long back.(Gulf Air 320, Flash B737, etc)
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 14:24
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Hand-flying should have no influence, it is expected that both sides of the flight deck are competent in hand-flying at this point in their careers.
Maybe inadvertently retracting from flaps 5 to flaps up, instead of flaps 1?
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 14:29
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Why would they request a fast climb afterwards then?
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 14:40
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To increase the margin on low-speed buffer due to high gross weight? Vref+80 on the Boeing type I currently fly is over 250kt at Max TOW.
Take a turbulent departure and keep normal speed (250 below 10000), you are in for a nasty surprise.

Whas the load and balance sheet accurate, is the first question here.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 15:03
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That's the point.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 15:52
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Yikes - not a nice thing to hear on frequency. Handled well.

I wonder was it a sudden tail wind mixed with heavy laden aircraft? 250kias could be surprisingly close to the buffer zone I imagine
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 16:38
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If min speed (Vref+80) is greater than 250kts, you can fly at the higher speed. Max TOW, our 763 has +80 of 256kts, so that’s what we’d fly.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 16:52
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The Kennedy 5 departure doesn't contain a published 250 knot restriction. Therefore only the FAR is applicable, and that states you can go to clean speed. I don't know why anyone wouldn't. Possibly an increasing tailwind, but 22s are generally in use with southerly or westerly wind. Wouldn't expect it until the turn.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 18:14
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Couple of things stand out:

Firstly that the stall warning sounds like it worked like it says on the tin. And the recovery was initiated.
Secondly there was a radio frequency distraction possibly increasing the PM's time head down.

Glad the piloting came back to save the situation!

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Old 20th Nov 2020, 21:25
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Possible early ALT capture with the autopilot engaged...need to watch your speed as the autopilot will fly the capture profile without speed protection. Heavy weight and/or wind shift are equally possible but even low level if you have a high rate of climb as it goes into ALT or VNAV ALT watch out for the speed decay.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 21:55
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The PM sounded sleepy on the radio. Then the stall woke him up!
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 22:37
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So much utter nonsense being written here. Those that currently fly heavy Boeing types here have probably answered the question. Had it not been caught on the RT no one would have been any of the wiser. Well handled but nothing any competent crew couldn’t handle.
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Old 20th Nov 2020, 23:01
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"No one would have been the wiser", maybe not, until the operational data dump flagged up a stall on climb out. Not exactly an everyday event.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 00:02
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Contact Approach

Regardless, still earns them tea and biscuits with the CP soon thereafter. Not normally pleasant conversations.
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Old 21st Nov 2020, 01:21
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All utter nonsense indeed.

Except nike.

Who is 100% correct.
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