Aegean Airlines Fly for Food
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Aegean Airlines Fly for Food
I am not aware of anything similar happening on the planet earth....as it is happening in AEGEAN AIRLINES a member of STAR ALLIANCE. The salaries given to Captains, First Officers and cabin crew have always been super low but now.... they are nominated for a possible Guinness World Record ! The lowest salaries in the world for A320 !
What is happening here...is the definition of Medieval Working Conditions and "Modern Slavery" ! I fly for FOOD.....is more than appropriate !
The figures are net for Local crews/Month not expat salaries, since expats have been made redundant almost immediately due to Covid.
Captains: 2500-3000 EUR (some with older staff # much higher, like TRE, TRI, pilot management etc)
First Officers: 800-1200 EUR (800-900 EUR take some colleagues from HAF-Hellenic Airforce since around 300 EUR are subtracted from their "salaries" due to A320 Type rating)
Cabin crew: 500 EUR (Most CCM have a 6 month contract, they fire them after 6 months.... then IF next summer they need them back they hire them again !)
Rights ? What rights ?
The above figures are for around 30-40 Block hours (around 70-80 Duty hours) - Captains might fly more since they are less and next month is around 25 h Block (November) for First Officers.
Pre Covid figures: net average/Month (90+ h/Month summer season - 50 h or less/Month winter season, 700-750 h per year)
Captains: 3500-4700 EUR (10-15 years captains with the annual bonus +TRE-TRI extras, from 7000-9000+ EUR/Month). Cases of less than 3000 EUR/Month also exist for captains !
First Officers: 1800-2500 EUR (depending on basic salary and IF you get a summer base-per diem). Cases of 1600 EUR/Month also exist for First Officers ! I am one of them...
Cabin Crew: 800-900 EUR (SCCM 1200 EUR depending also with sales)
Let's make a quick FORDEC.....
FACTS: This Salary is a disgrace for the Aviation industry... now and then, even before Covid !
OPTIONS: Wait for the industry to recover and run away ....! or...stay.... or do something else....change profession !
RISKS: To stay with them is a great risk for our health....not only for our pocket !
DECISION: Run away with "Afterburner" .....
EXECUTE: Send them far away....
CHECK-RECHECK: Even the desert will seem OASIS !
The "funny" part is that pilot management and other high ranked officials think that we must be very happy... since we keep our positions. Like the cow which is happy while eating the green grass just before being slaughtered !
Since the salary here (even pre-covid) is 1/3 or less from the salary given everywhere else, It cost them nothing to continue giving "peanuts" . They have on "standby" a small # of qualified pilots and when the flights increase next summer... those "slaves" will be ready for work again !
They will also use expats again....Its easy....I need you now....tomorrow go out, on winter go out.....low seasons....go out..!
Pilot Unions in Greece ? Are you joking ? Whoever has tried to promote the fair and the good in this company... has been fired or put aside...!
" we have to isolate the rebels and stop rebellions" !
The only thing they do good is P.R...public relations ! A320 NEO delivery- ceremony , TV commercials , FB and Instagram marketing-promotion practices and a big big FAKE smile! Of course with the "help" of the GREEK government (a house with a red light or red light district...if you prefer...) !
What is happening here...is the definition of Medieval Working Conditions and "Modern Slavery" ! I fly for FOOD.....is more than appropriate !
The figures are net for Local crews/Month not expat salaries, since expats have been made redundant almost immediately due to Covid.
Captains: 2500-3000 EUR (some with older staff # much higher, like TRE, TRI, pilot management etc)
First Officers: 800-1200 EUR (800-900 EUR take some colleagues from HAF-Hellenic Airforce since around 300 EUR are subtracted from their "salaries" due to A320 Type rating)
Cabin crew: 500 EUR (Most CCM have a 6 month contract, they fire them after 6 months.... then IF next summer they need them back they hire them again !)
Rights ? What rights ?
The above figures are for around 30-40 Block hours (around 70-80 Duty hours) - Captains might fly more since they are less and next month is around 25 h Block (November) for First Officers.
Pre Covid figures: net average/Month (90+ h/Month summer season - 50 h or less/Month winter season, 700-750 h per year)
Captains: 3500-4700 EUR (10-15 years captains with the annual bonus +TRE-TRI extras, from 7000-9000+ EUR/Month). Cases of less than 3000 EUR/Month also exist for captains !
First Officers: 1800-2500 EUR (depending on basic salary and IF you get a summer base-per diem). Cases of 1600 EUR/Month also exist for First Officers ! I am one of them...
Cabin Crew: 800-900 EUR (SCCM 1200 EUR depending also with sales)
Let's make a quick FORDEC.....
FACTS: This Salary is a disgrace for the Aviation industry... now and then, even before Covid !
OPTIONS: Wait for the industry to recover and run away ....! or...stay.... or do something else....change profession !
RISKS: To stay with them is a great risk for our health....not only for our pocket !
DECISION: Run away with "Afterburner" .....
EXECUTE: Send them far away....
CHECK-RECHECK: Even the desert will seem OASIS !
The "funny" part is that pilot management and other high ranked officials think that we must be very happy... since we keep our positions. Like the cow which is happy while eating the green grass just before being slaughtered !
Since the salary here (even pre-covid) is 1/3 or less from the salary given everywhere else, It cost them nothing to continue giving "peanuts" . They have on "standby" a small # of qualified pilots and when the flights increase next summer... those "slaves" will be ready for work again !
They will also use expats again....Its easy....I need you now....tomorrow go out, on winter go out.....low seasons....go out..!
Pilot Unions in Greece ? Are you joking ? Whoever has tried to promote the fair and the good in this company... has been fired or put aside...!
" we have to isolate the rebels and stop rebellions" !
The only thing they do good is P.R...public relations ! A320 NEO delivery- ceremony , TV commercials , FB and Instagram marketing-promotion practices and a big big FAKE smile! Of course with the "help" of the GREEK government (a house with a red light or red light district...if you prefer...) !
Last edited by Work4Food; 2nd Apr 2022 at 13:58.
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So what are you really trying to tell us?
It's a private company and it's normal to try to cut costs.
If you are an airline pilot I am sure you would fly under those terms rather than staying unemployed
It's a private company and it's normal to try to cut costs.
If you are an airline pilot I am sure you would fly under those terms rather than staying unemployed
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While I realise that this is no comfort for any expat in Eastern Europe, I can't help but wonder why people lose the big picture all the time. Pilot salaries in that part of the world are scaled towards the overall standard of living even in the best of times, let alone when COVID survival mode is on. The mean or the minimum salaries in Greece for any job are not even close to those in Western Europe or in the Middle East (with living costs obviously also being lower). Pilots are no exception.
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PIKAD
I can’t believe you really think this way.
i’d rather drive a bus and sleep every night in my bed for 1000€ than get the same money as an Airline Pilot.
I do love and respect the job. That is why I won’t accept putting us at the same level of an unqualified worker.
I can’t believe you really think this way.
i’d rather drive a bus and sleep every night in my bed for 1000€ than get the same money as an Airline Pilot.
I do love and respect the job. That is why I won’t accept putting us at the same level of an unqualified worker.
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I am not so sure if this thread and the "cry for awareness" is being placed under ideal circumstances seen the current aviation industry is currently being smacked to the ground due to the covid19 pandemic. With a quick search on the internet and looking at the thousands of forum titles about pilots being made redundant, one should be proud and happy to still have a seat in a flying cockpit. I do realise the salaries at the mentioned company are very low in regards to the remaining airlines in Europe, but none the less it does provide a decent lifestyle in Greece. Not to mention that highly educated academics sometimes earn even less than pilots in this country. If we were talking about previous years, I would suggest to complete your minimum hours in your personal logbook and try look for better opportunities elsewhere, as the experience you gain in Aegean Airlines is certainly in a top ten list in the industry. But with today's negative numbers, hold your horses and enjoy the flying as long as you can. Many pilots are counting the copper coins to come around each week and have no clue when they will ever hold a throttle and side stick in their hands again.
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I’m probably being way too naive/clueless but why isn’t there a union? Surely everyone would want to join and Aegean couldn’t fire the whole workforce...
(This applies more to pre-Covid/post-Covid anyway, as now it would be pointless)
(This applies more to pre-Covid/post-Covid anyway, as now it would be pointless)
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@ AOGspanner
If you read more carefully, 4700 EUR are PRE-covid for CAPTAINS (4-5 years captains)
That figures are PRE-covid for around 700-750 h per year .... (90+ h/Month summer season and around 50 h/Month winter season)
Unfortunately WE ..the pilots are the bigger threat to T&C......."shiny Jet Syndrome" > P2F > Work for "peanuts"> I would do "anything" to touch a cockpit etc.....
If you are below average in skills but your father is rich...yes you can afford to work for 800 EUR ....That is why so many people defending the 800 EUR. With the papa behind....
(I don't know a family of 3 or 4 that can live with 800 EUR/Month........AND don't forget we are talking about pilots......not cleaning personnel)
If you read more carefully, 4700 EUR are PRE-covid for CAPTAINS (4-5 years captains)
That figures are PRE-covid for around 700-750 h per year .... (90+ h/Month summer season and around 50 h/Month winter season)
Unfortunately WE ..the pilots are the bigger threat to T&C......."shiny Jet Syndrome" > P2F > Work for "peanuts"> I would do "anything" to touch a cockpit etc.....
If you are below average in skills but your father is rich...yes you can afford to work for 800 EUR ....That is why so many people defending the 800 EUR. With the papa behind....
(I don't know a family of 3 or 4 that can live with 800 EUR/Month........AND don't forget we are talking about pilots......not cleaning personnel)
Last edited by Work4Food; 30th Oct 2020 at 09:35.
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But what can be done about it? Go tell the guys working there now to quit and go stack shelves until 2022-2023 or thereabout, when they can realistically expect new employment as pilots. In the present situation, people are clinging onto any flying job for dear life. And, unfortunately, that's the case in many other professions as well. The other day I was reading an article about professionalism in general becoming massively depreciated because so many professionals only care about not getting fired now.
Maybe the one and only solution would be to artificially suppress the supply of pilots, like they did in the USA with the 1500-hour rule. But in Europe that would be very hard, if not impossible to achieve.
Maybe the one and only solution would be to artificially suppress the supply of pilots, like they did in the USA with the 1500-hour rule. But in Europe that would be very hard, if not impossible to achieve.
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Probably the right way to go. Easy to achieve by requiring a full ATPL to sit in either seat of an aircraft over 5700 kg. Training route in being either that or the Airline mentored MPL. If it rebalances the market then it will spur the airlines to make those programmes achievable to a greater cross section.
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@Lurav “ Where have you been for the past 6 month?“
At home , i will not accept any salary below my dignity and professionalism , this will mean to be out of aviation ? No problem .
Im am fed up with “ pilot” that compare themself to fast food flip-burgher because they don’ have any courage to stand up and fight for better contract .
What if tomorrow the company will ask you to fly for free ? Not even for food , and pay for your licence renewal ?What will be your answer ?
Tell us where is you dignity level , we are curious...
At home , i will not accept any salary below my dignity and professionalism , this will mean to be out of aviation ? No problem .
Im am fed up with “ pilot” that compare themself to fast food flip-burgher because they don’ have any courage to stand up and fight for better contract .
What if tomorrow the company will ask you to fly for free ? Not even for food , and pay for your licence renewal ?What will be your answer ?
Tell us where is you dignity level , we are curious...
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Agreed. I'd rather not be a pilot than a low paid one. I don't care what anyone says, I became a pilot for the money and the lifestyle. Both are gone? Well, so am I.
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aviation is a global industry. Also, pilot salaries have not always been low in this part of the world. I’m sure there are some Olympic pilots that will correct you. Stop making excuses for low compensation. It’s pathetic. A lot of this can be blamed on the unions that don’t cooperate throughout the continent and your P2F schemes and lack of general aviation opportunities.
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Bealzebub
Also, all talk about extending retirement age from 65 to 67, 68, 70 or whatever should stop once and forever. As for limiting oversupply at the bottom, given the shortage of GA opportunities across Europe, one alternative to the 1500 hours would be requiring any candidate for an ATPL to achieve a degree first. That's not unheard of in some parts of the world - and it largely takes care of those who think that having mom and dad pay for a crash course in basic physics and button pushing will guarantee them a glamorous career.
Also, all talk about extending retirement age from 65 to 67, 68, 70 or whatever should stop once and forever. As for limiting oversupply at the bottom, given the shortage of GA opportunities across Europe, one alternative to the 1500 hours would be requiring any candidate for an ATPL to achieve a degree first. That's not unheard of in some parts of the world - and it largely takes care of those who think that having mom and dad pay for a crash course in basic physics and button pushing will guarantee them a glamorous career.
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PilotLZ
yes, quite possibly.
Since the late 90’s when Mr O’Leary stated that he only wanted one pilot in the flight deck and clearly that wasn’t going to happen anytime soon, the cheapest interim option was the way to go. At about the same time Joint Aviation Requirements brought the hours for a CPL issue down from 700 hours to 250 hours. This opened the floodgates to a whole generation of “wannabes” who thought that 250 hours was the new golden ticket to the right hand seat of a 737 or A320. Prior to this era of deregulation there were “fast track” pathways to airline careers via a handful of “approved” schools. Suddenly, Puddlewick-in-the-Marsh flying club rebranded itself as the Puddlewick-in-the Marsh Airline Academy. Sadly, the output vastly exceeded the real world demand. Many of the larger airlines continued to source from the newer iterations of what were previously the “approved” schools.
The reason JAR brought the “non-approved” hours requirement down by nearly two thirds was because the CPL was the new aerial work licence, much as it properly was everywhere else in the world. It was then that the ATPL should have been regulated as the licence required for Airline Transport flying. I am sure Mr O’Learly was delighted, and for 20 years many thousands of hopeful aspirants have been able to squabble ad-infinitum about “modular and integrated” and how unfair it is that airlines aren’t snapping them up with their 250 hours. Add to that, the reality that even the airline apprenticeship programmes were so oversubscribed that they could transfer the entire financial risk burden to the trainees and you end up with the situation you have today! More properly you have the situation you had up until March this year.
Commercial aviation has been turned on its head by this disaster. As the world eventually recovers from this, and allowing for “grandfather” transition periods, it is an ideal opportunity for the regulations to properly rebalance the situation. The ATPL should become the baseline qualification for the right hand seat of an airliner. Beyond that, a properly structured airline programme should become the fast track route. Radical? Not really, it’s the way it is in the US and pretty much the way it was prior to JAR and then later EASA.
yes, quite possibly.
Since the late 90’s when Mr O’Leary stated that he only wanted one pilot in the flight deck and clearly that wasn’t going to happen anytime soon, the cheapest interim option was the way to go. At about the same time Joint Aviation Requirements brought the hours for a CPL issue down from 700 hours to 250 hours. This opened the floodgates to a whole generation of “wannabes” who thought that 250 hours was the new golden ticket to the right hand seat of a 737 or A320. Prior to this era of deregulation there were “fast track” pathways to airline careers via a handful of “approved” schools. Suddenly, Puddlewick-in-the-Marsh flying club rebranded itself as the Puddlewick-in-the Marsh Airline Academy. Sadly, the output vastly exceeded the real world demand. Many of the larger airlines continued to source from the newer iterations of what were previously the “approved” schools.
The reason JAR brought the “non-approved” hours requirement down by nearly two thirds was because the CPL was the new aerial work licence, much as it properly was everywhere else in the world. It was then that the ATPL should have been regulated as the licence required for Airline Transport flying. I am sure Mr O’Learly was delighted, and for 20 years many thousands of hopeful aspirants have been able to squabble ad-infinitum about “modular and integrated” and how unfair it is that airlines aren’t snapping them up with their 250 hours. Add to that, the reality that even the airline apprenticeship programmes were so oversubscribed that they could transfer the entire financial risk burden to the trainees and you end up with the situation you have today! More properly you have the situation you had up until March this year.
Commercial aviation has been turned on its head by this disaster. As the world eventually recovers from this, and allowing for “grandfather” transition periods, it is an ideal opportunity for the regulations to properly rebalance the situation. The ATPL should become the baseline qualification for the right hand seat of an airliner. Beyond that, a properly structured airline programme should become the fast track route. Radical? Not really, it’s the way it is in the US and pretty much the way it was prior to JAR and then later EASA.