LGW BA lite
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LGW BA lite
Good afternoon!
Does anyone have any information on what’s happening with the LGW arm of BA with the votes etc yet?
Also what the T&C that was offered?
Does anyone have any information on what’s happening with the LGW arm of BA with the votes etc yet?
Also what the T&C that was offered?
Oh dear !
..According to Head for Points today - Headline - "Exclusive: British Airways could close Gatwick short-haul after BALPA pulls pilot ballot."
https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/0...ck-short-haul/
We wondered why our tame BA bloke looked a bit glum in the pub last night.
...
https://www.headforpoints.com/2021/0...ck-short-haul/
We wondered why our tame BA bloke looked a bit glum in the pub last night.
...
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The sticking point was the protection clause linking contract agreements between pilots at LHR and LGW. BA rejected this showing the truth that BA wants to split the pilot group and a weaker workforce at LGW. Glad BALPA stopped this, let them pull out.
LGW is one of the most important airports in London and therefore the world, if BA pull out and sell there slots they will be purchased very quickly by a competitor, my presumption is that more of these slots will be purchased by the orange airline than the pink one. They raised 1.7 billion dollars in cash to strengthen there grasp in their fortress airports, they will do anything for those available slots.
COVID 19 is passing and things are looking better everyday, it’s better for BA to pull out and let the already better paying competitor take over than to divide and conquer the pilot group to push down terms and conditions permanently. At the end of the day these slots need to be flown by jets and those jets need pilots, especially now when those pilots need to be British nationals there is not the possibility of outsourcing cheaper labour on dubious contracts in foreign lands. BALPA knows this and made the right decision.
LGW is one of the most important airports in London and therefore the world, if BA pull out and sell there slots they will be purchased very quickly by a competitor, my presumption is that more of these slots will be purchased by the orange airline than the pink one. They raised 1.7 billion dollars in cash to strengthen there grasp in their fortress airports, they will do anything for those available slots.
COVID 19 is passing and things are looking better everyday, it’s better for BA to pull out and let the already better paying competitor take over than to divide and conquer the pilot group to push down terms and conditions permanently. At the end of the day these slots need to be flown by jets and those jets need pilots, especially now when those pilots need to be British nationals there is not the possibility of outsourcing cheaper labour on dubious contracts in foreign lands. BALPA knows this and made the right decision.
I agree this looks like a good call by BALPA but I’m not at all sure that observation about British nationals is correct.
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Replace British nationals with "Those pilots that have a valid UK work permit which includes those non-British nationals with settled status prior to 31st December. However, does not include Europeans (and other nationalities) seeking work in the UK for the first time. Unless they apply for a work permit which will not be possible in any industry for which there is no shortage of qualified professionals". A bit of a mouthful, but can't be put into a simple word or phrase unfortunately.
My guess is that this will run on for a bit now, BA could quite easily decide to go ahead with another company and simply crew the flying side of it with temporary secondments from LHR, if the terms are right there will be plenty of takers from those who were based there before covid. The annual savings of the pilot contract vs what was in place at LGW before was apparently only 2 million so chicken feed in the grand scheme. I can't see them pulling out completely.
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So BA pull out of LGW take my job away sending me to LHR/CRS/PRP and now want me to temporarily go back to LGW whilst they ( possibly I) train up my replacement.
Not very tempting.
Not very tempting.
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Playing devils advocate here, but if the unions and BA don't see eye to eye, doesn't that pave the way for BA to end their short haul operation out of LGW? I can't imagine IAG would be willing to surrender slots and see them fall into the hands of easyJet and especially Wizz, so if things end in stalemate, what are the odds of a new operator being established to take over the network and crews being TUPE'd across? LEVEL perhaps?
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Think thats exactly the point. For once its good to see Balpa stand their ground. I wish the Balpa reps for the other airlines did the same, showed a bit of teeth, rather than always give in and then praise themselves for not sure what really.
Stand your ground and don’t let BA into gatwick, that will be a K.O espec with long haul restrictions more fragile than short haul!
Stand your ground and don’t let BA into gatwick, that will be a K.O espec with long haul restrictions more fragile than short haul!
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Would a stalemate with the unions potentially add yet more pilots to the current surplus caused by the pandemic, should BA elect to permanently end their short-haul operation at LGW?
Could it be a case of the lesser of two evils here? BA operates a much leaner short-haul operation at LGW with inferior terms for crew or BA close their branded short-haul operation at LGW permanently. The cynic within me suspects BA has tactically chosen now as the time to announce their LGW plans. Allow the dust to settle from the initial shock from the pandemic and try to steamroll this proposal through and at a time when BALPA doesn't have much leverage to exploit at the negotiating table.
Could it be a case of the lesser of two evils here? BA operates a much leaner short-haul operation at LGW with inferior terms for crew or BA close their branded short-haul operation at LGW permanently. The cynic within me suspects BA has tactically chosen now as the time to announce their LGW plans. Allow the dust to settle from the initial shock from the pandemic and try to steamroll this proposal through and at a time when BALPA doesn't have much leverage to exploit at the negotiating table.
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It's not just BA (Lite). All Airlines in general speak are seeking to do as such. I would suggest this not to be an unusual thing, its business - just as flight crew all leaving said companies for better offers when things improve is just business.
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Mister Geezer
Balpa keep saying there is no leverage, however I think this is the perfect leverage. And once they allow BA to get away with this you can be sure others will do the same as it creates precedent. I think Balpa have more leverage as it would be surprising to see BA let go of LGW and give way to losing their slots at a time when things are picking up for short haul (and likely long haul with US in Nov and AUS in Dec)
Balpa keep saying there is no leverage, however I think this is the perfect leverage. And once they allow BA to get away with this you can be sure others will do the same as it creates precedent. I think Balpa have more leverage as it would be surprising to see BA let go of LGW and give way to losing their slots at a time when things are picking up for short haul (and likely long haul with US in Nov and AUS in Dec)
If BA do elect to terminate shorthaul at LGW, will they (whenever life gets back to "normal" maybe next summer) have enough slots at LHR to grow the European business back to the size it was ? Or is this a Machiavellian move to get rid of the old BCal once and for all and put a different IAG carrier based at LGW ?
If BA Lite doesn't include the longhaul they will effectively be running two airlines at LGW anyway.
If BA Lite doesn't include the longhaul they will effectively be running two airlines at LGW anyway.
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Mister Geezer
would the pilots in LHR and in the pool allow them to do that. Remember they have the crew for this operation already, to start a new airline with new crew would seriously anger the pilot group especially I would be if I were in their position and possibly lead to strikes. Bringing in a new brand for LGW is the same as outsourcing and would be a serious case for industrial action.
In my opinion BA pilot group and BALPA should hold out. We are talking about LGW here one of the most in demand markets in the world their is money to be made in this market. Their is a reason why Wizz and easy are banging on the door to get in the market and BA know this they don’t want to lose their position their. They say the have been loss making at LGW for 20 years which is hard to believe but if it’s true than why would they stick around there for that long if they don’t see the value in the market space.
would the pilots in LHR and in the pool allow them to do that. Remember they have the crew for this operation already, to start a new airline with new crew would seriously anger the pilot group especially I would be if I were in their position and possibly lead to strikes. Bringing in a new brand for LGW is the same as outsourcing and would be a serious case for industrial action.
In my opinion BA pilot group and BALPA should hold out. We are talking about LGW here one of the most in demand markets in the world their is money to be made in this market. Their is a reason why Wizz and easy are banging on the door to get in the market and BA know this they don’t want to lose their position their. They say the have been loss making at LGW for 20 years which is hard to believe but if it’s true than why would they stick around there for that long if they don’t see the value in the market space.
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CW247
Pilots are on the Tier 2 skilled list, as long as earning over £60k-ish for a 39 hour week (it comes out to around £30/hour).
I would assume that EU crew in the UK would include experienced First Officers at the bulk of airlines, so no need to be British.
There are (more limited) opportunities in the other direction too, although due to Ryanair's conditions, not with FR.
Pilots are on the Tier 2 skilled list, as long as earning over £60k-ish for a 39 hour week (it comes out to around £30/hour).
I would assume that EU crew in the UK would include experienced First Officers at the bulk of airlines, so no need to be British.
There are (more limited) opportunities in the other direction too, although due to Ryanair's conditions, not with FR.
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Time to blame those pesky pilots.
British Airways scraps plans to reintroduce short-haul flights from Gatwick post-COVID
http://news.sky.com/story/british-ai...covid-12415115
British Airways scraps plans to reintroduce short-haul flights from Gatwick post-COVID
http://news.sky.com/story/british-ai...covid-12415115