Glider crash, two killed, Mt beauty
Thread Starter
Glider crash, two killed, Mt Beauty, Victoria, Australia
Last edited by I spy; 1st May 2024 at 16:25.
Very sad
Gliding Australia (ASAO) is supporting Victorian Police and Coroner in gathering evidence, inspecting, investigating and analysing. The Grob G109B was VH registered, privately operated, visiting Mount Beauty. Many lines of investigation to be pursued; it is too early to speculate on causal issues. Our focus is also on wellbeing of family, friends, aviation colleagues affected by this crash.
Pegase Driver
A G109 is not a glider ( re title) and not so simple to fly , we had one in our club, many incidents / accidents ( minor) with it.
I wonder if the experienced pilot was having it on this type .
I wonder if the experienced pilot was having it on this type .
Forgive me for raising the point, but I do feel it needs raising. The title of this thread, "Glider crash, two killed, Mt beauty", isn't helpful to many (most?) readers, because it refers to a location they won't ever have heard of. The thread is also in a section of PPRuNe that is not geographically specific, so there are no first-glance clues as to where this accident occurred. Surely it would be helpful to others if the author added a country, and perhaps a state in the thread title?
Seeing the country included in a thread title, of this nature, would certainly help readers direct their attention to threads of particular interest. If there isn't enough room to include state and country in a title, perhaps confine the specific "Mt beauty" location to the opening line of a post. For example, a title of 'Glider accident Victoria, Australia; 2 fatalities' quickly guides those who wish to read further, with the precise location better kept for the the opening post itself?
Whilst not applicable to this thread, it is similar to threads that announce themselves as, for example, 'Aircraft Accident today at Big Airport'. The use of the word 'today' is meaningless, once the calendar moves on. Better to use the specific date, so that if the thread is still active, even months or years later, readers can quickly and easily see, from the thread title, whether it is today, recent, or quite some time ago. I will add that, due to the way North America tends to format dates, it is far less confusing if writers use the name of the month, rather than the number of the month e.g. '10th May 1979' or 'May 10th 1979' are far quicker to mentally process. However, written as '10/05/1979' or '05/10/1979', things just get confusing.
Just to be clear, I mean no disrespect to the people closely involved in the tragic event highlighted by this thread, but contributors shouldn't forget that it is a world-wide forum, and how they write can be just as important as the subject they write about.
EDIT: As it turns out, there is a duplicate thread in The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions section.
Seeing the country included in a thread title, of this nature, would certainly help readers direct their attention to threads of particular interest. If there isn't enough room to include state and country in a title, perhaps confine the specific "Mt beauty" location to the opening line of a post. For example, a title of 'Glider accident Victoria, Australia; 2 fatalities' quickly guides those who wish to read further, with the precise location better kept for the the opening post itself?
Whilst not applicable to this thread, it is similar to threads that announce themselves as, for example, 'Aircraft Accident today at Big Airport'. The use of the word 'today' is meaningless, once the calendar moves on. Better to use the specific date, so that if the thread is still active, even months or years later, readers can quickly and easily see, from the thread title, whether it is today, recent, or quite some time ago. I will add that, due to the way North America tends to format dates, it is far less confusing if writers use the name of the month, rather than the number of the month e.g. '10th May 1979' or 'May 10th 1979' are far quicker to mentally process. However, written as '10/05/1979' or '05/10/1979', things just get confusing.
Just to be clear, I mean no disrespect to the people closely involved in the tragic event highlighted by this thread, but contributors shouldn't forget that it is a world-wide forum, and how they write can be just as important as the subject they write about.
EDIT: As it turns out, there is a duplicate thread in The Pacific: General Aviation & Questions section.
Last edited by deeceethree; 28th Apr 2024 at 09:33.
They seem to have a few fatalities. https://aviation-safety.net/asndb/type/G109
Apart from normal maintenance issues like brake fade and brake leaks from one side in particular, we have had few 'incidents' and so far (touch wood) no accidents. We are all current glider pilots as well as power pilots, which helps, and are well aware of the challenges which go with motor glider ops - low climb rates etc. Admittedly this is syndicate use, not club. There are simpler, perhaps more robust, lower performance motor gliders arguably more suitable for club use.
What problems have your club had? Always useful to find out from others rather than make all the errors ourselvses !
Pegase Driver
no , the G109 is a motor glider , or TMG in EASA speak ,which needs a special TMG licence , more like a PPL , it is not a self launching glider which you fly with a glider licence ( SPL) and a self launch endorsement .
@ biscuit74 : The main issue with it in our club use was the variable pitch prop combined with an underpowered heavy aircraft and some people only flying it a couple of hours a year. Most hiccups were on go around or even attempting taking off on wrong prop settings.also the small wheel base added up . Not really a club aircraft . We sold it to the UK which seems to like them 😏
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@ biscuit74 : The main issue with it in our club use was the variable pitch prop combined with an underpowered heavy aircraft and some people only flying it a couple of hours a year. Most hiccups were on go around or even attempting taking off on wrong prop settings.also the small wheel base added up . Not really a club aircraft . We sold it to the UK which seems to like them 😏
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If you want to dig a bit deeper into FAA rules, one self launching motor glider I flew needed a type rating! It was turbo jet powered.
Last edited by EXDAC; 28th Apr 2024 at 22:41. Reason: add FAA registry extract showing aircraft type a "glider".
"Two-Seater Motor Glider Accident, Mount Beauty, Victoria, Australia, Sat 27 April 2024" would have been a better heading.
Grob G109B motor glider accident. Very experienced pilot, extensive gliding and touring motor glider background. Qualified instructor. In Australia, gliders and motor gliders are on CASA National Aircraft Register, and operated and maintained to approved standards. Gliding Australia is Part 149 Approved Self-Administering Aviation Organisation. Glider pilot training is provided against approved syllabi by Gliding Australia instructors. Flying a TMG requires specific training syllabus and qualifications endorsed.
Investigation is continuing, Gliding Australia supporting police and coroner.
Male pilot and female passenger killed. Flight was to scatter ashes of passenger's father, pilot's close friend, over Mount Beauty airport in Victorian high country.
Accidents like this hit the gliding and regional aviation community hard. Our first thoughts are with the family, friends, gliding club members and aviation colleagues, affected communities. Most tragic circumstances, so be considerate of the wellbeing of people who might read this stuff.
Yes, we want to better understand causes and risk factors. Keep an eye on the Gliding Australia FB page and website.
Grob G109B motor glider accident. Very experienced pilot, extensive gliding and touring motor glider background. Qualified instructor. In Australia, gliders and motor gliders are on CASA National Aircraft Register, and operated and maintained to approved standards. Gliding Australia is Part 149 Approved Self-Administering Aviation Organisation. Glider pilot training is provided against approved syllabi by Gliding Australia instructors. Flying a TMG requires specific training syllabus and qualifications endorsed.
Investigation is continuing, Gliding Australia supporting police and coroner.
Male pilot and female passenger killed. Flight was to scatter ashes of passenger's father, pilot's close friend, over Mount Beauty airport in Victorian high country.
Accidents like this hit the gliding and regional aviation community hard. Our first thoughts are with the family, friends, gliding club members and aviation colleagues, affected communities. Most tragic circumstances, so be considerate of the wellbeing of people who might read this stuff.
Yes, we want to better understand causes and risk factors. Keep an eye on the Gliding Australia FB page and website.
Pegase Driver
@EXDAC : thanks for your explanations on FAA licensing , fits your country motto “ land of the free and home of the brave “
I only wish EASA would ease up their licences endorsements !
for me it is your definition of s “self launching motor glider “ is what puzzled me , it is an anachronism : a motorglider would automatically self launch , a glider not necessarily hence the difference . Also very different in handling both
expecting a pure glider pilot to handle a heavy and underpowered ( almost all are ) motorglider with a viable pitch prop is not really advisable hence 2 different training syllabus and licence in Europe .
i have no idea how it is spit in Australia either .
@Bunyan Wingnut: sorry for your loss .indeed let’s wait to hear the reasons . No trying in any way to try to apportion blame on the pilot . **** happens sometimes, we all know that ,
I only wish EASA would ease up their licences endorsements !for me it is your definition of s “self launching motor glider “ is what puzzled me , it is an anachronism : a motorglider would automatically self launch , a glider not necessarily hence the difference . Also very different in handling both
expecting a pure glider pilot to handle a heavy and underpowered ( almost all are ) motorglider with a viable pitch prop is not really advisable hence 2 different training syllabus and licence in Europe .
i have no idea how it is spit in Australia either .
@Bunyan Wingnut: sorry for your loss .indeed let’s wait to hear the reasons . No trying in any way to try to apportion blame on the pilot . **** happens sometimes, we all know that ,