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Qantas buys Alliance

Old 18th May 2022, 12:36
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Lots of still unemployed Type Rated E170/190 pilots in UK. FlyBe went bust a year or two back, operated a large number of Q400 too.
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Old 18th May 2022, 22:31
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Originally Posted by -41 View Post
Afap responds.



Late last week a number of members alerted the AFAP to recruitment advertisements for foreign pilots (Direct Entry Captains and First Officers) at both Alliance on the E190 and Rex on the B737, sending us copies of the advertisements. Over the weekend we wrote to both Alliance and Rex seeking confirmation of whether these advertisements are genuine.
Rex has since written back stating that the advertisement relating to Rex is “unsolicited and NOT supported by Rex”. They have also advised that the WhatsApp number referenced in the advertisement does not belong to any Rex employee.

We are yet to receive confirmation from Alliance.

At this stage we need to work on the assumption that the screen shots relating to Alliance seeking interest from E190 pilots in the UK for contract positions in Adelaide or Darwin are genuine. Accordingly, we have commenced steps to address this development and will be taking further steps this week. These include briefing politicians on both sides of politics and the media on this issue, which we appreciate is of great concern to members.

Australian pilots, particularly airline pilots, have been amongst the hardest hit employees by the pandemic. Most of us have endured significant stand downs and many have lost their jobs, such as the Tigerair pilots and Virgin ATR and wide-body pilots. Advertising for foreign pilots at this time is a betrayal of trust for all Australian pilots – the company’s existing pilots, currently unemployed experienced Australian pilots and many pilots in GA who are looking to progress their aviation career.

If true, it is particularly disappointing given that Alliance has previously proudly proclaimed how profitable they have been over the pandemic. Such conduct, especially in the current environment, cannot be ignored.

Rest assured we will be taking every possible step to ensure Australian pilot jobs are prioritised for Australian pilots.

We will keep you posted on developments.

Best regards,

Capt. Louise Pole

President
Well done Louise 👏. When you present your argument don’t forget that the NT Government granted Qantas/Alliance $3.6m for the “Jet Base” in Darwin (which is as going to happen regardless) to assist with training and admin.
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Old 19th May 2022, 00:36
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Kind of Ironic the hand wringing about this whilst another post in the forum is all about how to go to the USA to take pilot jobs……….
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Old 19th May 2022, 01:07
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Kind of Ironic the hand wringing about this whilst another post in the forum is all about how to go to the USA to take pilot jobs……….
1. USA has a real shortage of pilots.
2. Australians going to the USA are not undercutting the US market.
3. The US government would never let foreigners in if there was qualified citizens unemployed

This is just a last ditch effort by Alliance to set a legal precedent and set the lowest conditions possible until there is a implosion of the Australian pilot labour market and they start becoming price takers.

Last edited by neville_nobody; 19th May 2022 at 01:19.
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Old 19th May 2022, 01:47
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Originally Posted by neville_nobody View Post
1. USA has a real shortage of pilots.
2. Australians going to the USA are not undercutting the US market.
3. The US government would never let foreigners in if there was qualified citizens unemployed

This is just a last ditch effort by Alliance to set a legal precedent and set the lowest conditions possible until there is a implosion of the Australian pilot labour market and they start becoming price takers.

1. Does the USA have a shortage of pilots or a shortage of appropriately qualified pilots.
2. That is debatable, if foreign pilots are not sourced what would happen to the terms and conditions of the USA pilots?
3. The Australian Government would never let foreigners in if there are qualified citizens unemployed.

The USA has a shortage of qualified pilots due to the 1500 hour requirement passed post Coglan, the real reason for the accident though was fatigue caused by excessive commuting due to insufficient pay to live at the local base, which funnily enough was looked over. The market in the USA is not dissimilar to here in OZ, lots of licenced pilots but not enough qualified and experienced pilots, if you accept that in the USA importing qualified pilots instead of upskilling their own is appropriate then surely the same can be said here. A British pilots with thousands of hours on the E190 is surely more appropriate than a local pilot with no jet time.
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Old 19th May 2022, 02:05
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Originally Posted by Ollie Onion View Post
A British pilots with thousands of hours on the E190 is surely more appropriate than a local pilot with no jet time.
Perhaps so, but how about a local pilot with thousands of hours on other types of jets, who could be easily trained on the E190 if the airline concerned was prepared to do so?
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Old 19th May 2022, 02:41
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So if the contracts go ahead, and the sale to QF goes through, in 6 months time we will have contract pilots in a Qantas airline. Cool.
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Old 19th May 2022, 04:53
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3. The Australian Government would never let foreigners in if there are qualified citizens unemployed.

Oh really?


https://www.macrobusiness.com.au/202...age-is-a-sham/


“…Moreover, the top five occupations granted visas under the skilled stream in 2017-18 were:
  • Accountants (3505 places)
  • Software Engineer (3112 places)
  • Registered Nurses (1561 places)
  • Developer Programmer (1487 places)
  • Cook (1257 places)
According to the Department of Jobs and Small Business’ list, not one of these professions was deemed to be in shortage over the five years to 2018, whereas Software Engineer has never been in shortage in the entire 31–year history of the series.“


it continues…


”…According to the Department of Home Affairs, there were 34,450 primary visas granted in 2017-18, of which 25,620 (74%) were for professionals and managers; again where skills shortages are largely non-existent…

The failure of Australia’s skilled migration program to alleviate genuine skills shortages should not be surprising given almost any occupation is eligible for visas. Specifically:
  • 216 occupations are eligible for the Employer Nomination Scheme visa (subclass 186)
  • 673 occupations are eligible for the Regional Sponsored Migration Scheme (subclass 187)
  • 212 occupations are eligible for the Skilled Independent Visa (subclass 189), the Temporary Graduate Visa (subclass 485), and the family-nominated Skilled Regional (Provisional) Visa (subclass 489)
  • 427 occupations are eligible for the Skilled Nominated Visa (subclass 190)
  • 504 occupations are eligible for the State or Territory nominated Skilled Regional (Provisional) Visa (subclass 489)
  • 508 occupations are eligible for the Temporary Skill Shortage (TSS) visa (subclass 482).
  • 31 occupations are eligible for the Horticulture Industry Labour Agreement.

The above lists have no requirement that the occupations are actually experiencing skills shortages. This means that visas can be used by employers who wish to access foreign labour for an ulterior motive, such as to lower wage costs or to avoid providing training.“


As mentioned a few posts above there a plenty of out of work, experienced pilots in Australia who may merely require an endorsement, and following that will hang around for a decent pay packet and, shock horror, perhaps commutable rosters if based in Darwin!

This is nothing more than a bottom feeding attempt at joining the rest of the Australian business community in selling out locals. If it’s not, then why not offer these UK expats the same pay an Australian would get for this work?

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Old 19th May 2022, 10:13
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1. The USA has a shortage of appropriately qualified pilots.
Fixed it for you.

2. That is debatable, if foreign pilots are not sourced what would happen to the terms and conditions of the USA pilots?
It's not complex, but the regional model will only take a certain level of remuneration before it implodes, some say it's not far off this, when/if this happens, what will happen? Will it be rolled into mainline with a fleet of 75 seaters? Who knows, but the jobs won't completely disappear.

3. The Australian Government would never let foreigners in if there are qualified citizens unemployed.
With the greatest of respect, bullsh!t. The government will do it's utmost to lower wages in almost every sector. All you need as a sector is a plausible story decrying the 'labour shortage.'

I seriously doubt there is an unemployed E190 pilot in the States, not unless that pilot chooses unemployment. Australia however.


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Old 19th May 2022, 11:35
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Just been offered to apply for the DRW base. What a joke. They didn't even say which seat, even though with 24,000 hours and 16,000 PIC on A and B brand and a history of C and T, this should be obvious to the kid who wrote the letter. This despite me saying on their application online I'll accept any base except the crocodile infested S***hole. I guess my reply will be used to further their agenda for foreign pilots. Hard hat on.
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Old 19th May 2022, 11:44
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The cynic in me says the sudden interest in Australian pilots who were previously ignored has nothing to do with their skills and experience...

Last edited by BuzzBox; 19th May 2022 at 12:11.
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Old 19th May 2022, 19:47
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Originally Posted by Maisk Rotum View Post
Just been offered to apply for the DRW base. What a joke. They didn't even say which seat, even though with 24,000 hours and 16,000 PIC on A and B brand and a history of C and T, this should be obvious to the kid who wrote the letter. This despite me saying on their application online I'll accept any base except the crocodile infested S***hole. I guess my reply will be used to further their agenda for foreign pilots. Hard hat on.

Similar experience to you but it appears my application disappeared with HR girl no. 2 (of 4) when she took the computer on departure. If they offered the same terms they are offering foreign pilots (accommodation & commuting) there might be some interest from Australians. Offering lower terms to locals is the crux of the matter.

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Old 19th May 2022, 21:00
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The government will do it's utmost to lower wages in almost every sector.
Do you think a newly elected Labor government would operate that way?
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Old 20th May 2022, 02:16
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Originally Posted by Icarus2001 View Post
Do you think a newly elected Labor government would operate that way?
They wouldn’t have a clue.
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Old 20th May 2022, 02:52
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Originally Posted by t_cas View Post
They wouldn’t have a clue.
Yeah cause the LNP are fully onboard with the working class....

Tell me another joke....
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Old 20th May 2022, 06:00
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Do you think a newly elected Labor government would operate that way?
Well if Labor’s history is anything to go by I wouldn’t be relying on their support.
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Old 20th May 2022, 07:05
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Alliance truly are the chosen ones, as they were hand selected to ferry Scomos media pack around the country a few times over. Write your own cheques kinda stuff
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Old 20th May 2022, 10:37
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Originally Posted by TimmyTee View Post
Alliance truly are the chosen ones, as they were hand selected to ferry Scomos media pack around the country a few times over. Write your own cheques kinda stuff
Really ?
And could you suggest who else would have had the capability to do the tasks.
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Old 20th May 2022, 11:00
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I was offered a potential contract operating for Alliance. The terms were atrocious and politely turned it down. Don’t worry guys, most Brits are not interested. They will struggle with foreigners.
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Old 20th May 2022, 13:14
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I think that is an interesting perspective. The market is moving on. The reality of living costs will impact future offerings.
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