steam footplate experience taken today
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Berkshire, UK
Posts: 755
steam footplate experience taken today
Today I took a steam engine footplate ride on the NYMR. It was my first proper loco experience although I did drive a loco about 50 yards on a loco driver experience day about 30 years ago which was interesting but not really educational. Today I was on board a J27 (65894 built in 1923) for the full 36 mile round trip plus a visit to the coaling and water cranes. The only bummer is that the railway is attaching a diesel loco to every train to do some of the work in order to reduce the amount of burning coal cinders being thrown up the funnels to try to prevent line side fires breaking out. In recent weeks some large patches of the Yorkshire Moors have been scorched by steam loco caused fires.
Anyway, despite the loco not working particularly hard the trainee fireman, also on the footplate today, was being kept quite busy. I hadn't appreciated how much of a balancing act the fireman has to do in order to keep the boiler topped up, the steam at a good working pressure and the fire covering all of the grate evenly. In addition the fireman must anticipate the demands for steam over the next mile or two and build steam or not as required. Even when the loco is waiting between runs the work goes on, once the fire is settled into a stable idle, hot but not drawing to build steam, there is coal in the tender to shift closer to the fireman's shovelling point and a quick check on the oil box levels plus the drinking of tea to do. The regular fireman and the driver were able to answer all of my techy questions and also fed us snippets of info as we went along.
The steam injectors on this particular engine seemed to be less trouble than some I have heard about but still needed a little careful handling to get them going. I was struck by the levels of vibration and the firmness of ride. I had assumed that 50 odd tons of steam loco would have ridden more smoothly especially as, when watching it go by from not on board, you see the track bend and dip under the weight of each axle passing over it.
All in all a good day out. I originally booked today's outing in 2019 but it got cancelled by the Covid 19 outbreak, so glad to finally get it done.
Rans6............
ps my grandfather on my mother's side drove steam engines from Nottingham until, as he approached retirement, Dr Beeching and the impending end of steam caused him to retire. he died shortly afterwards when I was 7. I didn't get the chance to ask him about his work experiences.
Anyway, despite the loco not working particularly hard the trainee fireman, also on the footplate today, was being kept quite busy. I hadn't appreciated how much of a balancing act the fireman has to do in order to keep the boiler topped up, the steam at a good working pressure and the fire covering all of the grate evenly. In addition the fireman must anticipate the demands for steam over the next mile or two and build steam or not as required. Even when the loco is waiting between runs the work goes on, once the fire is settled into a stable idle, hot but not drawing to build steam, there is coal in the tender to shift closer to the fireman's shovelling point and a quick check on the oil box levels plus the drinking of tea to do. The regular fireman and the driver were able to answer all of my techy questions and also fed us snippets of info as we went along.
The steam injectors on this particular engine seemed to be less trouble than some I have heard about but still needed a little careful handling to get them going. I was struck by the levels of vibration and the firmness of ride. I had assumed that 50 odd tons of steam loco would have ridden more smoothly especially as, when watching it go by from not on board, you see the track bend and dip under the weight of each axle passing over it.
All in all a good day out. I originally booked today's outing in 2019 but it got cancelled by the Covid 19 outbreak, so glad to finally get it done.
Rans6............
ps my grandfather on my mother's side drove steam engines from Nottingham until, as he approached retirement, Dr Beeching and the impending end of steam caused him to retire. he died shortly afterwards when I was 7. I didn't get the chance to ask him about his work experiences.
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kelowna Wine Country
Posts: 466
120 tons the ride is just as rough or rougher. I was thunderstruck when I had a ride on a LNER loco as a kid (16yrs old.) At 60 mph I thought I was going to get shaken to bits, at 80 I was sure.
Strangely the best film description I have seen was the footplate of Tornado on an episode of Top Gear.
Strangely the best film description I have seen was the footplate of Tornado on an episode of Top Gear.
Tabs please !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Biffins Bridge
Posts: 744
It's amazing doing it during the day, firing a loco at night with 10 coaches up a 1 in 75 is a totally different game. We must be bloody mad.
One abiding memory was on a downward gradient, some 4 miles out from home with everything squared away. There was no moon and the fields were covered in tiny points of light. They were glow worms so not only did we have the stars above but a carpet of stars either side of us. Pure magic.
Other times, running backwards in winter in the rain with little protection can be less than fun. You turn yourself like a kebab with one side of your overalls facing the back head steaming, and the other side freezing and wet.
Sadly (thankfully ?) I don't have enough time to contribute these days.
One abiding memory was on a downward gradient, some 4 miles out from home with everything squared away. There was no moon and the fields were covered in tiny points of light. They were glow worms so not only did we have the stars above but a carpet of stars either side of us. Pure magic.
Other times, running backwards in winter in the rain with little protection can be less than fun. You turn yourself like a kebab with one side of your overalls facing the back head steaming, and the other side freezing and wet.
Sadly (thankfully ?) I don't have enough time to contribute these days.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,511
For aviation interest (not necessary, 'cos everyone loves steam chuff-chuffs !), the note about injectors raises a question ... Why do steam injectors have problems, when jet pumps in aircraft fuel tanks (same principle) seem to just work as advertised ? variability of operating medium ? ... or manual selection, rather than automatic ?
Tabs please !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Biffins Bridge
Posts: 744
Because they are totally different. The temperature of the feed water is critical in that it has to be cold to guarantee the condensation in the mixing cone that adds energy to the flow, turning it supersonic. This gives it the energy required to overcome boiler pressure and pass through the clack valve.
I was a dab hand at getting the injector to "sing" i.e. a slower and constant feed which makes firing easier.
I was a dab hand at getting the injector to "sing" i.e. a slower and constant feed which makes firing easier.
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,511
Interesting, but I don't understand how the feed source temperature in either case can be modified. The aitcraft tank contents will cool as a function of OAT and/or altitude and the steam water tank contents are, similarly affected by initial and ambient conditions. Does the steam engine feed water pass through some sort of intermediate control system?
Tabs please !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Biffins Bridge
Posts: 744
The feed water from the tender or the tanks only passes through a variable valve before entering the water cone. Water from a tank engine will warm due to being beside the boiler, water from a tender can warm on a hot day making the injectors a bit more temperamental. On the main line, water stops are often from a road tanker. One bright spark thought it was a good idea to bring warm water as it would require less coal. Result, one stopped train due to an inability to get it into the boiler.
Ho hum.
Ho hum.
Tabs please !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Biffins Bridge
Posts: 744
It's a neat trick invented by the French, a Monsieur Laval. The flow becomes supersonic and the shock wave allows the jet of water to overcome the boiler pressure and be fed into the mix. Most recurring steam engine injector problems come down to cone alignment, scaling or wear. The size of a main line loco injector is a bit of a surprise. They're tiny.
Laval's little gizmo is also the basis for rocket nozzles, jet pipes etc resulting in the static pressure of the exhaust gas to be less than atmospheric pressure. This confines the stream as a narrow cone and the shock wave in a supersonic flow gets reflected in and out, showing as the dancing diamonds you see when the toasters are lit. A great example is footage of the RS-25 engine being fired up on the space shuttle. The initial flow is over-expanded to the point where the atmosphere has greater static pressure than the exhaust. This is shown as the flame front being pushed back up the nozzle until the pumps come to full speed. The blue line seen curling back into the bell at the 2:00 mark is that boundary.
One is not just a capitalist you know
Laval's little gizmo is also the basis for rocket nozzles, jet pipes etc resulting in the static pressure of the exhaust gas to be less than atmospheric pressure. This confines the stream as a narrow cone and the shock wave in a supersonic flow gets reflected in and out, showing as the dancing diamonds you see when the toasters are lit. A great example is footage of the RS-25 engine being fired up on the space shuttle. The initial flow is over-expanded to the point where the atmosphere has greater static pressure than the exhaust. This is shown as the flame front being pushed back up the nozzle until the pumps come to full speed. The blue line seen curling back into the bell at the 2:00 mark is that boundary.
One is not just a capitalist you know
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 1,511
One is not just a capitalist you know
... and one is not just a ranting, bigoted, old git, unable to see the benefits of the Capitalistic 'selfish gene' ..
...well, actually, that is just what I am - one wouldn't want to waste years of practice !
... and one is not just a ranting, bigoted, old git, unable to see the benefits of the Capitalistic 'selfish gene' ..
...well, actually, that is just what I am - one wouldn't want to waste years of practice !
Tabs please !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Biffins Bridge
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by pasta
It's just taken me a good 10 mins to figure out how they work, many thanks for the fascinating diversion!
Anyway, we were talking about coal and got onto diamonds. Both are made of carbon so that's allowable thread drift.
Thought police antagonist
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Where I always have been...firmly in the real world
Posts: 1,161
Originally Posted by rans6andrew
Anyway, despite the loco not working particularly hard the trainee fireman, also on the footplate today, was being kept quite busy. I hadn't appreciated how much of a balancing act the fireman has to do in order to keep the boiler topped up, the steam at a good working pressure and the fire covering all of the grate evenly. In addition the fireman must anticipate the demands for steam over the next mile or two and build steam or not as required. Even when the loco is waiting between runs the work goes on, once the fire is settled into a stable idle, hot but not drawing to build steam, there is coal in the tender to shift closer to the fireman's shovelling point and a quick check on the oil box levels plus the drinking of tea to do. The regular fireman and the driver were able to answer all of my techy questions and also fed us snippets of info as we went along.
.
Which is why, when I saw a very precocious and arrogant 19yr old trainee fireman leaning over the cab on a national television programme, telling everybody how to drive and fire a steam loco, the drivers face in the background said it all.
I know this individual and he was happily driving DMU's, alone, under age (17 at the time) unqualified from the yard to the platform and nobody in the "management " was remotely bothered, in fact, they were supportive of him !..
So I'm pleased to say, after the threat of a prohibition notice previously, the line was served one in January this year, now complied with, for ?....unsafe operations and lack of postholder knowledge.
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: S. California & N. Dakota, USA
Age: 62
Posts: 21
From the former colony...
...should your travels bring you to this side of the pond suggest checking status of
https://www.up.com/media/releases/he...team/index.htm
for a possible viewing. Magnificent is an apt description.
https://www.up.com/media/releases/he...team/index.htm
for a possible viewing. Magnificent is an apt description.
Tabs please !
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Biffins Bridge
Posts: 744
Originally Posted by Krystal n chips
So I'm pleased to say, after the threat of a prohibition notice previously, the line was served one in January this year.
On another line, in a galaxy far, far away.......
