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First Airborne Radar

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Old 17th Jan 2022, 19:41
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First Airborne Radar

A bit of a shot in the dark here, but I'm trying to find information for some elderly friends regarding their father, a William Wilkinson.

He worked for Shorts Aircraft in the 30s and 40s and served in the Army during the war. By their accounts, he was involved in the installation of the first radar set in an aircraft.

Initial internet search doesn't come up with anything concrete, so if anyone has any knowledge or links, that would be much appreciated.
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Old 17th Jan 2022, 20:47
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The first AI set fitted to an aircraft was a Handley Page Heyford, initially just a receiver then a transmitter and receiver as well, but they needed long antennae. After that, the first practical set was fitted to an Anson.
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Old 17th Jan 2022, 20:48
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbor...rception_radar
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 01:09
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The first airborne radar sets carried aloft (at least in Britain) were certainly not AI (Air Interception) sets, that did not come about till somewhat later. I believe it was in fact a form of ASV (Air to Surface Vessel) equipment which first became airborne in the late 1930s, from my hazy collections of the Robert Watson-Watt autobiography.

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Old 18th Jan 2022, 06:53
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You may find this relevant.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_George_Bowen
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 07:45
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Originally Posted by dduxbury310
The first airborne radar sets carried aloft (at least in Britain) were certainly not AI (Air Interception) sets, that did not come about till somewhat later. I believe it was in fact a form of ASV (Air to Surface Vessel) equipment which first became airborne in the late 1930s, from my hazy collections of the Robert Watson-Watt autobiography.

David D
Other way about, the development of ASV was as a result of the early work carried out on AI, and discovering (by accident) it could detect ships. Development was faster and ASV came into service earlier.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 12:57
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Originally Posted by MightyGem
A bit of a shot in the dark here, but I'm trying to find information for some elderly friends regarding their father, a William Wilkinson.

He worked for Shorts Aircraft in the 30s and 40s and served in the Army during the war. By their accounts, he was involved in the installation of the first radar set in an aircraft.

Initial internet search doesn't come up with anything concrete, so if anyone has any knowledge or links, that would be much appreciated.
It would seem odd, that if he worked for an aircraft manufacturer for a number of years and was involved in the installation of radar in aircraft, that he would have joined the army?
One would have presumed that working for an aircraft manufacturer ( I am assuming he was a technical person) would have been a reserved occupation.
Even more so that he was involved with radar, that would have been even more specialised and reserved.
Just my observation and perhaps one of the idiosyncrasies of the British at war.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 14:14
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Originally Posted by rolling20
It would seem odd, that if he worked for an aircraft manufacturer for a number of years and was involved in the installation of radar in aircraft, that he would have joined the army?
One would have presumed that working for an aircraft manufacturer ( I am assuming he was a technical person) would have been a reserved occupation.
Even more so that he was involved with radar, that would have been even more specialised and reserved.
Just my observation and perhaps one of the idiosyncrasies of the British at war.
Radar was used extensively by the Army for anti-aircraft work, so they will have needed experts as well. My father briefly worked on late model WW2 radar predictor systems, before disappearing to serve in the Far East. He said the combination of radar and plotter predictors was so good later on that even a constant weave was no good, it really had to be random. He also recalled the fitting of mechanical cut-offs to predictor systems, to avoid the systems plotting ahead of dive bombers and shelling their targets instead!
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 15:07
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Originally Posted by biscuit74
Radar was used extensively by the Army for anti-aircraft work, so they will have needed experts as well. My father briefly worked on late model WW2 radar predictor systems, before disappearing to serve in the Far East. He said the combination of radar and plotter predictors was so good later on that even a constant weave was no good, it really had to be random. He also recalled the fitting of mechanical cut-offs to predictor systems, to avoid the systems plotting ahead of dive bombers and shelling their targets instead!
Indeed it was and not very effective at the start of the war.
I am merely assuming that has he had been at Shorts for some time, his attributes were better used where he was.
if he was at Shorts fitting radar, my guess is the ASV in Sunderlands, a number of which were equipped by the end of 1940.

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Old 18th Jan 2022, 15:44
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The army were heavily involved in radar development from the start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GL_Mk._III_radar

Last edited by ORAC; 18th Jan 2022 at 16:44. Reason: Sp
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 15:44
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If you are looking at First airborne radar in the UK, then you will find plenty of references, but the Germans were far ahead at the beginning of the war and had a huge advance until 1943-44 where things reversed. . They had the first radar units of radar equipped night fighters and 360deg azimuth small antennas radars on the ground already in 1939-40. But not much documentation in English unfortunately. History is always written by the ones that win the wars. ..
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 16:49
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Originally Posted by ORAC
The army were heavily involved in radar development from the start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GL_Mk._III_radar
Indeed they were,as I said before.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 16:56
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History well documented. This the book I have on my shelf, hopefully yo7 can pick up a cheaper copy second hand.

Amazon Amazon


https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...nings-of-radar
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 19:09
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Thanks for that. I'd already seen it but the Williams mentioned is not my man.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 19:11
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Thanks, ORAC.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 19:13
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It would seem odd, that if he worked for an aircraft manufacturer for a number of years and was involved in the installation of radar in aircraft, that he would have joined the army?
My thoughts as well. He's also reputed to have been involved in the rebuilding of the VW factory at Wolfsburg after the war.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 21:01
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Originally Posted by MightyGem
My thoughts as well. He's also reputed to have been involved in the rebuilding of the VW factory at Wolfsburg after the war.
He sounds like an interesting chap.
Don't tell ORAC you thought that though, else you'll get the cut n paste treatment.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 21:54
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I thought that was all down to Major Hirst.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 22:51
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The first AI radar was fitted to the 604 Sqn Blenheims operating out of Manston. They were operational in the summer of 1940 and saw service in the Battle of Britain.
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Old 18th Jan 2022, 22:59
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The Germans were far ahead at the beginning of the war and had a huge advance until 1943-44 where things reversed. . They had the first radar units of radar equipped night fighters and 360deg azimuth small antennas radars on the ground already in 1939-40. But not much documentation in English unfortunately. History is always written by the ones that win the wars. ..
German radar was more technically advanced than Britain's. however, as most military historians will tell you, the outcome is rarely about who has the best kit. The Chain Home High and Low systems were basic, but as a component of an integrated air defence system, they became very useful tools, and this system was instrumental in the Luftwaffe's defeat. In comparison, the Germans never really organised their air defence to the same capability. They had reached a point where they were close with the Kammhuber line, but they were still relying on single control units controlling just one fighter. The concept of a plan position indicator never occurred to them and no-one in command ever really had an overall picture of the air battle.
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