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Greatest opportunity for pilots amid crisis?

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Greatest opportunity for pilots amid crisis?

Old 22nd Mar 2020, 22:51
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Greatest opportunity for pilots amid crisis?

I might well be opening a can of worms here, but this crisis could be the perfect opportunity for us pilots to uprise and get what we are worth. At the moment we are seen as just an asset, a cost that has to be paid to keep the planes in the air. As soon as the shit hits the fan, as we have seen with Covid19, the first to go are the staff. But if/when (and I very much hope when) everything returns to somewhat normal they will need us back in the cockpit quicksmart. If we can at least resist, argue what we are worth, how much we mean to airlines. This could be the best opportunity for pilots to get back what they deserve. Without us the planes will remain grounded. I'm not greedy. I have debts from flying school. Of which the unemployment benefit I will receive will only just cover the loan repayments. I've worked two jobs to cover it all until I became a FO and when I finally did,t wage I got was only slightly better than driving my delivery van around. I love my job, wouldn't change. But come on. We deserve better. Discuss-
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Old 22nd Mar 2020, 23:21
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If a big airline(s) go broke it will become quite the opposite. There will be 1000s of unemployed pilots with plenty of experience and nowhere to work. Salaries will either decrease or stay stagnant for a long time. You will find the airlines that survive will leverage this for many years to come.

If you were just starting or learning to fly your best option would be to stop for a few years.
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Old 22nd Mar 2020, 23:40
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I keep thinking that freight is the thing that must continue; or at least, be the first to return.
Governments want businesses to continue so that jobs are preserved.
Businesses need materials, parts, delivery mechanisms etc to continue.

Airlines should be converting to freight, and I think they still need pilots, engineers, dispatch, ATC etc etc
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 00:02
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Malkovitch

Good luck with that. I'm sorry, but as far as your bosses are concerned, you are not an asset, just an overhead. They can't wait for the day they can fly people around with no one on the flight deck.

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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 00:10
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EK is moving the bar in the incorrect direction. Their pilots, who have complained about being underpaid already, are now going to be flying for 50% less!

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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 00:37
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Malkovitch . you talk about pilots rising up and getting what they are worth. Sadly the market today says they are getting exactly what they are worth based on current union agreements, etc.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 01:52
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Tough call... easy time to price yourself out of the market.. Corporate is less inclined to reward experience, Rather they would pay for someone to train from scratch. and let them bend some metal along te way... Just makes better sense on the earnings call. Like Mike Corleone said .."Its not personal Sonny, Its strictly business"....


Have a plan B
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 04:04
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Greatest opportunity - currently Aldi and lidl paying 9.50/hr
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 05:11
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I hope this thread is a windup
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 05:51
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Malkovitch, to be frank, the pilots are just one link in the chain. What about the cabin crew, ground crew, engineers, baggage handlers etc etc etc, all of whom are essential for getting the aircraft airborne?
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 06:02
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One solution to tackle corporate greed and runaway executive pay/bonuses is a co-operative style of operation where the company is run for the benefit of employees and customers, not greedy shareholders and executives who care about neither. If you want to launch one, we'll all be right behind you. Sadly, co-ops suffer from a chronic lack of finance and funding because the banks always want a healthy stake before they hand over the cash.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 06:10
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Pilots currently employed by freight airlines will probably retain existing T & Cs, as their segment of the industry should be OK. But it is highly unlikely that they will see any pay increases, other than perhaps productivity incentives to fly maximum hours.
Pilots & cabin crew etc currently employed in airlines geared to passenger operations do not have a rosy short term future. The usual laws of supply and demand will likely see conditions get worse as pilots squabble like seagulls over the scraps remaining and ruthless management exploit this. This will not be a time for any staff - from pilots to baggage handlers - to make demands; rather a time to keep a low profile and hope your employer survives.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 06:45
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Originally Posted by Audax View Post
Malkovitch, to be frank, the pilots are just one link in the chain. What about the cabin crew, ground crew, engineers, baggage handlers etc etc etc, all of whom are essential for getting the aircraft airborne?
Yes of course. Forgot to mention them. They are also invaluable. And as someone else mentioned. Asset was the wrong word. We are all just overheads
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 06:55
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Originally Posted by Mach E Avelli View Post
as pilots squabble like seagulls over the scraps
And well before Corona was even a popular beer.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 07:24
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Originally Posted by Meester proach View Post
Greatest opportunity - currently Aldi and lidl paying 9.50/hr
Yep. Got my interview tomorrow with Morrisons to drive a van.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 08:48
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Three main factors at play here:
  1. The supply / demand equation: the democratisation of air travel has grown the industry dramatically in the last decades, but how will the current crisis affect the future? Will demand come back up quickly, or will there be a new normal at lower demand?
  2. The passengers willingness to forgo any form of comfort/luxury in the name of cost. This is a huge burden on legacy airlines and has driven the industry to very skinny margins.
  3. The high operating leverage of airlines means that they are [email protected] focused on cash-flows and costs. Of those, cost is the only one they can control.
(1) is a global problem, and we can only hope that we will return to something approaching the old normal, but there are serious question marks.
(2) and (3) are industry structural issues, and very difficult to back out of that corner.

I'm afraid that there is not an awful lot that pilots can do to influence these factors...

Last edited by sheikhthecamel; 23rd Mar 2020 at 09:20.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 09:24
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Drivel of the highest order.
If and when this crisis is solved the economic consequences are mind blowing.

A few small national carriers may continue.

Everyone else will be concerned with food and shelter.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 10:46
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Originally Posted by bringbackthe80s View Post
I hope this thread is a windup
I hope so too!

As I have said elsewhere, once the demand for your highly qualified services dries up and the money runs out, your 'worth' is nil. Harsh but true.
I love my job, wouldn't change. But come on. We deserve better. Discuss-
Yes, we all love our jobs (well, there are some who love the image more than the job). But we only 'deserve' what is logically attainable. Try to elevate yourself onto too high a platform and reality will just give you further to fall.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 13:00
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Originally Posted by Malkovitch View Post
I'm not greedy. I have debts from flying school. Of which the unemployment benefit I will receive will only just cover the loan repayments. I've worked two jobs to cover it all until I became a FO and when I finally did,t wage I got was only slightly better than driving my delivery van around.
Darwinism at its best? What did you expect?

I mean, spending ~$100k to enter a market that, never mind being hugely susceptible to any outside downturn, is likely to be automated well within our lifetimes, isn't exactly smart thinking.

They're already taking off by themselves.
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Old 23rd Mar 2020, 13:14
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Give the guy a break. He is no different to the hundreds that embark on this journey every year. How did he know it was going to go to sh*t. The first 2 or 3 years as an FO is always painful income wise.
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